Jesus is YHWH

[steko]

Job 9:1 Then Job answered and said,
Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
Job 9:3 If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
Job 9:33 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


The gulf between the finite[man] and the infinite[GOD] is unbridgeable unless the bridge[mediator] is both man and GOD.

Those that don't acknowledge Christ's Deity are lacking a sufficient daysman[mediator].

 

[glorydaz]

Revelation 1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him

This Revelation quote begs an answer.

Here we see Christ revealed when returned to His former glory.

Rev. 1:12-13 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. Rev. 1:14-16 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. Rev. 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.​

Looking just like the Ancient of Days....the Alpha and Omega....the First and the Last.

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.​

I don't know how much you're willing to ignore, but it's a waste of time if you can't see the obvious. Hopefully, the day will come when you will give your Saviour all the Glory as Creator God.

 

[marhig]

Job 9:1 Then Job answered and said,
Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
Job 9:3 If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
Job 9:33 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


The gulf between the finite[man] and the infinite[GOD] is unbridgeable unless the bridge[mediator] is both man and GOD.

Those that don't acknowledge Christ's Deity are lacking a sufficient daysman[mediator].

Hi Steko, did you read the verses that I quoted? Why am I not to believe them?

And there is nothing in the verses you have quoted that make Jesus Christ the Almighty God, even in 1 Timothy 2:5 it shows us that Jesus isn't God, but rather that he is a mediator between God and man, he was sent from God to do his will and bare witness to the truth and meditate between God and man.

Christ Jesus came from God yes, and in him was the fulness of God bodily, yes, he was in the fulness of God bodily because there was no sin in him, he completely denied his own will to do the will of God and had the fulness of Gods spirit. But he is also under the subjection of God, even when he had gone back to the father. And God has put Christ Jesus over everything in heaven and earth, making God the God of Jesus Christ also. Just as Jesus himself says he is!

Why don't you believe Jesus' own words, when he says that God is his God, and that the father is the only true God?

My point had always been that that father is above Christ, why would Christ be under subjection to him if he wasn't? Why is God the head of Christ if Christ is God?

I have to believe what Jesus said himself, and he clearly says that God is his God.

 

[glorydaz]

Job 9:1 Then Job answered and said,
Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
Job 9:3 If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
Job 9:33 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


The gulf between the finite[man] and the infinite[GOD] is unbridgeable unless the bridge[mediator] is both man and GOD.

Those that don't acknowledge Christ's Deity are lacking a sufficient daysman[mediator].

Amen....our Lord was both, God and man.

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

 

[marhig]

This Revelation quote begs an answer.

Here we see Christ revealed when returned to His former glory.

Rev. 1:12-13 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. Rev. 1:14-16 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. Rev. 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.​

Looking just like the Ancient of Days....the Alpha and Omega....the First and the Last.

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.​

I don't know how much you're willing to ignore, but it's a waste of time if you can't see the obvious. Hopefully, the day will come when you will give your Saviour all the Glory as Creator God.

I can't believe that you.are saying that I'm ignoring scripture yet you have bypassed all those verses that clearly show that Jesus isn't God and that God is his God also and picked out only one. And you call me a heathen because I believe as I do, and not as you do, yet I am quoting the scriptures! And I love God and Christ from my heart!

Christ only speaks what the father gives him to speak, God is in him but he isn't God. It clearly says that Jesus Christ received the revelation that he gave to John from God.

What about all the other verses?

And what about this, this is after Jesus has gone back to the father

Revelation 3

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name..He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

If you believe as you are saying, then you must believe that Jesus is the father like GT does, and if Jesus is God in the way you are saying, then he also has to be the father too!

How can three people be one God, that's just not right. It says in the Bible that there is one God and that he's the father. That's said not only by Jesus, but by the apostles too. So you must believe that Jesus is the father? Do you?

 

[glorydaz]

I can't believe

I know....neither did most of the Jews.

If you believe as you are saying, then you must believe that Jesus is the father like GT does, and if Jesus is God in the way you are saying, then he also has to be the father too!

How can three people be one God, that's just but right. It says in the Bible that there is one God he's the father. That's said not only by Jesus, but by the apostles too. So you must believe that Jesus is the father? Do you?

You can't understand this, either, can you? Or rather, you refuse to believe it.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

Jesus is not the Father, but He is God just as the Father is God and the Spirit is God.

I'll bet you don't understand a lot of things....you believe what is written or you reject it. Don't just believe the verses that speak of Jesus' humanity, and reject those that speak of His diety. That's picking and choosing, and it's REJECTING the whole Truth.

I believe all the verses, understanding which ones speak of His humanity, and which speak of His diety. If you can't do that, then you're believing a LIE.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


The gulf between the finite[man] and the infinite[GOD] is unbridgeable unless the bridge[mediator] is both man and GOD.

Those that don't acknowledge Christ's Deity are lacking a sufficient daysman[mediator].

Bogus.

Jesus was always referred to as a man.

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.




LA

 

[marhig]

I know....neither did most of the Jews.

No need for sarcasm

You can't understand this, either, can you? Or rather, you refuse to believe it.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

Yes I can, the word is Gods word in Christ Jesus, because Christ Jesus only every spoke whatever the father gave him to speak, thus he is the word made flesh!

Jesus is not the Father, but He is God just as the Father is God and the Spirit is God.

I'll bet you don't understand a lot of things....you believe what is written or you reject it. Don't just believe the verses that speak of Jesus' humanity, and reject those that speak of His diety. That's picking and choosing, and it's REJECTING the whole Truth.

Rejecting his deity? Jesus says himself that God is his God. Thus I'm speaking the truth when I say that God is the God of Jesus and that Jesus isn't God!

I believe all the verses, understanding which ones speak of His humanity, and which speak of His diety. If you can't do that, then you're believing a LIE.

And if you don't believe Jesus when he says that God is his God and that the Father is the only true God, are you then not believing a lie? How can you get around that anyway? Why would Jesus say that the father is the only true God if Jesus himself is the only true God also? He then goes on to say that not only is it eternal life to know the father is the only true God, but that we are to know that Jesus Christ has been sent by the only true God the father!

It is clear from the scriptures that after Jesus has ascended to the father, that God is his God, as he says himself, and that Christ is under subjection to the father who is God, and that the head of Christ is God and that God the father has exalted Christ Jesus and he has put him over everything in heaven and in earth giving him full authority over all, and that God has set him at his right hand, if the son is under subjection to the father, then the father is his God.

The father has put Jesus as Lord over us, he is the highest in heaven, but he is not God Almighty, the father is, which is true according to what Jesus says, and the Apostles also. I must believe what they say. I'm not saying that you must believe as I do, I'm explaining what I believe and why i believe as I do. We have freewill, and I know that the way I believe is the truth, as shown in the scriptures that I have quoted.

And nothing in the Bible says that I must believe in the trinity or that I have to believe that Jesus is God to saved, but rather that I am to believe in Christ Jesus, believe his gospel, and believe that God has raised him from the dead, and I do! I have complete faith in God as Christ, and according to the apostle Paul, we are saved through faith by the grace of God.

It also says in the Bible, that if I believe in the son of God, then I have eternal life. And I do, I believe in the holy son of the living God, I believe that he is the Christ, the Messiah of God. I believe his son is our Lord Jesus and I believe that God has raised him from the dead.

What gives you or anyone else he the right to call me a heathen and say whether I will saved or not? Or for any of you to decide where I (or others) are going when we die? None of you are God, and only God makes those decisions, I hope that I'll be with all of you in heaven. If God blesses me. I have no wish for anyone to burn in lakes of fire for an eternity etc. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, yet I see people say things like that to others on here often. We shouldn't think like that, we should love one another in a way that we have hope for everyone, everywhere and hope that they believe in Jesus and his word. We are to just live by the will of God, and he will give us what we need to speak, when we need it. Gods church are the seed spreaders, and the Holy Spirit in then reaps the harvest when it's time. And only God knows the depths of all our hearts, so only he can truly judge us.

 

[jamie]

All who have been born of woman are human, male or female.

All who have been born of God are Spirit, neither male nor female.

The destiny of all humans is to be offered eternity.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

The post above should read:

"My wife is a christian and believes in a deity similar to the one your imagination has constructed I suspect. Do you honestly believe I don't love her and respect the beliefs she holds dear? Really?"

I apologize for the confusion this has caused the more obtuse members of the audience.

:e4e:

Too late. You wrote the original from your heart, unguarded. I actually have a bit of respect for you for taking your mask off and being close to the real you.

All the best wishes and a willingness to open a dedicated thread for abstract discussion and debate.

- EE

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Welcome Back to Meshak

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever
[MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION] ... Welcome Back

 

[Silent Hunter]

My wife is a christian and believes in a deity similar to the one your imagination has constructed I suspect. Do you honestly believe I don't love and respect her and the beliefs she holds dear? Really?

The post above should read:

"My wife is a christian and believes in a deity similar to the one your imagination has constructed I suspect. Do you honestly believe I don't love her and respect the beliefs she holds dear? Really?"

I apologize for the confusion this has caused the more obtuse members of the audience.

:e4e:

Too late. You wrote the original free m your heart, unguarded.

I wrote the original and its follow-up from a cell phone.

I actually have a bit of respect for you for taking your mask off and being close to the real you.

Excuse me if my economy of word failed to express the intended meaning. The less obtuse would recognize I have no need or desire to "love" something so ridiculous as the fundamentalist christian propensity of damning all to hell for not having the exact same beliefs as themselves. This goes to why I respect (not love for) my wife's beliefs (she's catholic) over yours.

All the best wishes and a willingness to open a dedicated thread for abstract discussion and debate.

I can discuss pretty much anything. I'm not fond of debate, especially something so nebulous that no two christians, among billions, seem able to agree... on anything.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I wrote the original and its follow-up from a cell phone.
Excuse me if my economy of word failed to express the intended meaning. The less obtuse would recognize I have no need or desire to "love" something so ridiculous as the fundamentalist christian propensity of damning all to hell for not having the exact same beliefs as themselves. This goes to why I respect (not love for) my wife's beliefs (she's catholic) over yours.
I can discuss pretty much anything. I'm not fond of debate, especially something so nebulous that no two christians, among billions, seem able to agree... on anything.

This is a fair argument. I'll think on it and make a thread based on your quote here. I'll PM you once it's created. We can bat it back and forth, without pressure and drag it out over a length of time.

 

[Silent Hunter]

This is a fair argument. I'll think on it and make a thread based on your quote here. I'll PM you once it's created. We can bat it back and forth, without pressure and drag it out over a length of time.

You assume you can suggest a topic I care to discuss with you. Your history suggests your emotions will get the best of you and the "discussion" will quickly deteriorate into the accusations and name-calling for which you are "famous".

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You assume you can suggest a topic I care to discuss with you. Your history suggests your emotions will get the best of you and the "discussion" will quickly deteriorate into the accusations and name-calling for which you are "famous".

You assume that I'm not taking you into account as I create the thread. I admit that I "get emotional", but don't we all? The Novel Ninteen-Eighty-Four talks about a world without emotion. I don't want that! Do you? But, I have admitted in more than one occasion that I utilize personality as a tool to generate invested debate.

Am I really emotional and out of control? Or, am I looking for the person behind the online persona?

"Much unhappiness has come into the world because of bewilderment and things left unsaid." ~ Fyodor Dostoyevsky

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You assume you can suggest a topic I care to discuss with you. Your history suggests your emotions will get the best of you and the "discussion" will quickly deteriorate into the accusations and name-calling for which you are "famous".

Link to proposed thread...

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...tral-ground-for-Atheist-and-Theist-Discussion

P.s. ... your inbox is full. I tried to PM you.

 

[Silent Hunter]

You assume you can suggest a topic I care to discuss with you. Your history suggests your emotions will get the best of you and the "discussion" will quickly deteriorate into the accusations and name-calling for which you are "famous".

You assume that I'm not taking you into account as I create the thread.

You assume you know me in any way even though you've made a number of (all incorrect) statements thinking you have the clairvoyance to know "what makes me tick".

I admit that I "get emotional", but don't we all?

Sure we do; that I know how to control my emotions in what should be a pleasant discussion is the difference between us in that regard.

The Novel Ninteen-Eighty-Four talks about a world without emotion. I don't want that! Do you?

It sure would do much to lessen murder; no?

But, I have admitted in more than one occasion that I utilize personality as a tool to generate invested debate.

... and alienated those who you might influence over to your point of view in so doing. Bad strategy.
QUOTE=Evil.Eye.;5042102]Am I really emotional and out of control?[/QUOTE]Perhaps; :idunno:.

"A real gentleman, even if he loses everything he owns, must show no emotion" - Dostoyevsky.

Or, am I looking for the person behind the online persona?

Like I said, Its a bad strategy.
QUOTE=Evil.Eye.;5042102]"Much unhappiness has come into the world because of bewilderment and things left unsaid." ~ Fyodor Dostoyevsky[/QUOTE]"The second half of a man's life is made up of nothing but the habits he has acquired during the first half" - Dostoyevsky.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You assume you know me in any way even though you've made a number of (all incorrect) statements thinking you have the clairvoyance to know "what makes me tick".
Sure we do; that I know how to control my emotions in what should be a pleasant discussion is the difference between us in that regard.
It sure would do much to lessen murder; no?
... and alienated those who you might influence over to your point of view in so doing. Bad strategy.
QUOTE=Evil.Eye.;5042102]Am I really emotional and out of control?

Perhaps; :idunno:.

"A real gentleman, even if he loses everything he owns, must show no emotion" - Dostoyevsky.
Like I said, Its a bad strategy.
QUOTE=Evil.Eye.;5042102]"Much unhappiness has come into the world because of bewilderment and things left unsaid." ~ Fyodor Dostoyevsky[/QUOTE]"The second half of a man's life is made up of nothing but the habits he has acquired during the first half" - Dostoyevsky.[/QUOTE]

I don't desire to "sway" any human being. I genuinely desire to provoke thought. When there's no Zig, I Zig. When there's no Zag, I zag.

I'm less complex than you are giving me credit for. If you don't want me to know you and if you think I'm beneath you, you have every right to cut communication off with me.

I hope that you evaluate the thread I created. It is a fair place for us to stop the round and round and kick a philosophical ball back and forth.

I'm trying to be kind and trust what you wrote a few quotes back. I'm approaching you with a cool head and a genuine desire to simply discuss things in a positive fashion.

I would hope that we can move past our postured back and forth that is racked with a showmanship type of "one upping" and move into sincere discourse.

 

[oatmeal]

Job 9:1 Then Job answered and said,
Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
Job 9:3 If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
Job 9:33 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


The gulf between the finite[man] and the infinite[GOD] is unbridgeable unless the bridge[mediator] is both man and GOD.

Those that don't acknowledge Christ's Deity are lacking a sufficient daysman[mediator].

Can you show from scripture the support for your comments?

Seems to me, that I Timothy 2:5, where God states "the man Christ Jesus" is sufficient reason to believe that God knows that Christ Jesus is a man but found him sufficient to be the one mediator between God and men.