JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[Lazy afternoon]

You'll never find an angel or righteous man receiving worship. They rebuke the worshipper every time.
Jesus accepted worship. He was either an impostor or the Almighty God!


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Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

 

[Lon]

It should show you that I do not take sides as you do.

LA

Er, you do too. This is an anti-Trinitarian thread. Of course you come down on the opposite side.

"If" you didn't, as you say, then you'd have sided with me simply because of this: He is against
the Bible being the inspired words of God and his theology is Urantia junk. Your comment to me, then, is out of place and joining with moon-beams.

You need to be true to the Word.
LA

So, were you a 'hypocrite' today? Maybe, but a better term with a clear application is 'undiscerning.'

Try not to enter a conversation on the side of the guy who hates the Word of God as imperfect and filled with the thoughts of imperfect men rather than being the inspired words of God.
:think: <--- Think.

 

[SimpleMan77]

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

If I lived in another invisible realm as a spirit named Jack, and on earth as a man named SM77, it creates no conflict to say Jack & SM77 while talking only of one being.
You'll never see the Lord God Almighty (the Spirit). He'll fill all the saved in eternity. Sitting on the throne you'll only see the Lamb. The center of His consciousness is Christ, but that doesn't stop Him from being everywhere and filling all (being everything in everyone, or "all in all").


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[JudgeRightly]

If I lived in another invisible realm as a spirit named Jack, and on earth as a man named SM77, it creates no conflict to say Jack & SM77 while talking only of one being.

Something I've tried to get through GT's head in another thread (or was it this one?) is that we humans are spiritual creatures living in a physical fleshy tent, as Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:1-8.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.For we walk by faith, not by sight.We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:1-8&version=NKJV

Our bodies belong to us, but they are not "us."

Our spirits are "us."

You'll never see the Lord God Almighty (the Spirit). He'll fill all the saved in eternity. Sitting on the throne you'll only see the Lamb. The center of His consciousness is Christ, but that doesn't stop Him from being everywhere and filling all (being everything in everyone, or "all in all").

 

[daqq]

Let's be real here: those arguing in this thread that "Jesus is YHWH" are not Trinitarians.
Knowing that YHWH is the Father, traditional Trinitarians did not confess "Jesus is YHWH".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

 

[keypurr]

Jesus is the express image of God's person. Period.
If I send you a photo of myself, it is the image of the person (me), but I am the person of the image. Jesus is the Almighty God who chose to become a man.


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Consider that the express image spoke and acted through Jesus.


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[keypurr]

You'll never find an angel or righteous man receiving worship. They rebuke the worshipper every time.
Jesus accepted worship. He was either an impostor or the Almighty God!


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There is an in between.

God's son, the spirit son, was given the fullness of his Father.
But he has a God over him.


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[jamie]

Consider that the express image spoke and acted through Jesus.

"For I have not spoken on My own authority, but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak." (John 12:49)

You have your version and Jesus has his version.

 

[daqq]

"For I have not spoken on My own authority, but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak." (John 12:49)

You have your version and Jesus has his version.

Keypurr's version appears to agree with the Master:

It is very simple, the Anointed one says that he himself is not the Logos:

John 12:48 W/H
48 ο αθετων εμε και μη λαμβανων τα ρηματα μου εχει τον κρινοντα αυτον ο λογος ον ελαλησα εκεινος κρινει αυτον εν τη εσχατη ημερα
48 The one rejecting me, and not receiving my words, has one who judges him: the Logos which I have spoken, that one shall judge him in the last day.

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22)
The Anointed one judges no one, (John 8:15, 12:47)
The Logos-Word is the Son: the Seeker and the Judge, (John 5:22, 8:50, 12:48).
No one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (John 1:18a, 1John 4:12a).

But what about your version?

 

[keypurr]

"For I have not spoken on My own authority, but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak." (John 12:49)

You have your version and Jesus has his version.

Was he not sent to do the will of his God?


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[freelight]

Was he not sent to do the will of his God?


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Indeed,...Jesus is the Exemplar, the model life man is to follow, to live and do as he did,...he came to show the way. How grand would it be for his claimed disciples to do as he did instead of worship him as 'God'? ...and believe in a merely theoretical salvation?

Despite his divinity or humanity, his teaching-word remains and those who honor him will keep his word. His doing God's will is for us a pattern to do likewise. These are they who enter the kingdom. One cannot call Jesus 'Lord' who does not do as he taught.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Indeed,...Jesus is the Exemplar, the model life man is to follow, to live and do as he did,...he came to show the way. How grand would it be for his claimed disciples to do as he did instead of worship him as 'God'? ...and believe in a merely theoretical salvation?

Despite his divinity or humanity, his teaching-word remains and those who honor him will keep his word. His doing God's will is for us a pattern to do likewise. These are they who enter the kingdom. One cannot call Jesus 'Lord' who does not do as he taught.

Ouch.

Except Jamie cain't get her.... , hung up on the fence.

Or does the inner man have those too?:chuckle:

 

[freelight]

Trinity bloopers.....

Trinity bloopers.....

Let's be real here: those arguing in this thread that "Jesus is YHWH" are not Trinitarians.
Knowing that YHWH is the Father, traditional Trinitarians did not confess "Jesus is YHWH".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

Getting 'real' is a deal breaker, since each person, sect or tradition goes by their own 'terms' and 'definitions'. We as Unitarians may assume YHWH is the Father Alone. Only if this is true, does the Trinitarian formula implode :crackup: - but theres always a loophole....since these 3 personalities are all 'God' anyways. While unity is upheld to remain monotheistic,....stress is put upon not confusing the persons. If only the Father is YHWH, the claim that Jesus is YHWH is obviously erroneous.

 

[jamie]

Elohim is a generic term. God is a generic term.

The Father is a specific term. The Son is a specific term.

Like Father like Son is an axiom.

Kinds produce like kinds.

Jesus is God as God is God, but Jesus is a Son, not the Father.

 

[daqq]

Getting 'real' is a deal breaker, since each person, sect or tradition goes by their own 'terms' and 'definitions'. We as Unitarians may assume YHWH is the Father Alone. Only if this is true, does the Trinitarian formula implode :crackup: - but theres always a loophole....since these 3 personalities are all 'God' anyways. While unity is upheld to remain monotheistic,....stress is put upon not confusing the persons. If only the Father is YHWH, the claim that Jesus is YHWH is obviously erroneous.

YHWH is a Name, The Name. Those who claim "Jesus is YHWH" are as anti-Trinitarian as those they accuse, in fact, they are worse because they are successfully infiltrating Trinitarian ranks using dishonesty, subterfuge, and deception. Trinitarians do not generally reject them so readily because they are also proclaiming, "Jesus is God Almighty", but they certainly are not traditional Trinitarians and are more like Modalist-Oneness believers. What they are promoting is really a form of the Oneness doctrine. They also get let off the hook more often because they are so much better in arguing their points than most Trinitarians; but that is only because as Modalists, (and especially in a forum setting), their argument changes and morphs from topic to topic as needed, (hat-switching just like the true Modalist).

 

[freelight]

Mode magic.....

Mode magic.....

YHWH is a Name, The Name. Those who claim "Jesus is YHWH" are as anti-Trinitarian as those they accuse, in fact, they are worse because they are successfully infiltrating Trinitarian ranks using dishonesty, subterfuge, and deception. Trinitarians do not generally reject them so readily because they are also proclaiming, "Jesus is God Almighty", but they certainly are not traditional Trinitarians and are more like Modalist-Oneness believers. What they are promoting is really a form of the Oneness doctrine. They also get let off the hook more often because they are so much better in arguing their points than most Trinitarians; but that is only because as Modalists, (and especially in a forum setting), their argument changes and morphs from topic to topic as needed, (hat-switching just like the true Modalist).

Modal theology is kinda like that

One essence, many modes......groovy eh?

 

[marhig]

Elohim is a generic term. God is a generic term.

The Father is a specific term. The Son is a specific term.

Like Father like Son is an axiom.

Kinds produce like kinds.

Jesus is God as God is God, but Jesus is a Son, not the Father.

Do you believe that the son is in subjection to the father?

 

[jamie]

Do you believe that the son is in subjection to the father?

Aren't we all? Our Father is the most high God above all, through all, in all.

Including Jesus.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Do you believe that the son is in subjection to the father?

Of course He is. He is submissive to the will of His Father.

"Not My will be done, but Yours"

 

[CherubRam]

Do you believe that the son is in subjection to the father?

Christ said he the Father is greater.

John 14:28
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

If they were one and the same, then the Father would not be greater than the son. If Christ was also Yahwah the Father, then he would not have said the Father is greater.