Jesus is God !

[freelight]

equations......

equations......

Their scriptures promote the Trinity.

No orthodox Jew recognizes this 'assumption' or believes it. Your assumption is reading your preconceived concept of 'God' into the text to justify your own trinitarian view.

You can't even tell us what you think the Trinity is.....can you?

The former commentary to which your responding to stands. I dont need to 'explain' my understanding and knowledge of the Chrsitian Trinity to support my previous statements.

Moses writes extensively about the triune God that he worshiped.

As shared previously, you'd have to share where this is taught clearly and definitively in the OT. This would be absurd for any orthodox Jew to believe. Remember, they dont share a 'christian' concept of 'G-d'.

And...not a single reference to scripture...

The Urantia Book's teaching on the Paradise Trinity is a cosmically enhanced and accentuated revelation adding greater depth and comprehension of the 'Godhead' than the traditional/orthodox teaching on the subject. It represents a 20th century expanded revelation on the glory of the Godhead, a most beautiful commentary. 'God' is not limited to any one set of books or holy writings, for the Infinite Spirit inspires progressive revelation appropriate to man's readiness and spiritual progress. - such are 'dispensations'.

Oh brother...

'Brahman' is the highest most absolute, universal conception of the ultimate all-supreme Being...even that reality prior to any conceptual form or idea of 'God', since it is the incorporeal womb and infinite Immensity that is indescribable, unnamable, prior to all forms and appearances. From IT (Infinite Being and Potential)...arises the phenomenal world and with it all forms. 'Brahman' is that reality before any conception of 'God'.

Scripture?

Go back and read my commentary to which you ask the above. Grasp what is written. I dont need 'scripture' to support the observations shared.

No.

Its quite clearly a fact for those that study scripture.

Its still a presupposed, preconceived (read into) assumption that the verses in the OT are expressing a trinitarian theology as specifically defined by later Christian theology. There are millions of Jewish students of the Torah, and thousands of Christian believers that 'study' that Bible that are essentially UNITARIAN in their beliefs and Christology. So, this is not a 'clear fact' of many sincere students of the scriptures.

As far as Unitarian/Trinitarian debates go, I did have 2 charter threads that were deleted in the recent trimmings due to their age.

1) - Unitarian Christianity
2) - Historic Arian Christianity

I would say I have a fair knowledge of the Trinity considering my studies (which are not just limited to historic Christian doctrinal developments). It just so happens that I dont think 'Unitarians' or 'Trinitarians' have an upper hand over anyone, or that one group is more favored by God, or even doctrinally correct...but this is more a pre-occupation of some of the rigid and dogmatic individuals from either camp.

My view of 'God' and 'reality' is much more liberal.



pj

 

[freelight]

conclusive reality...is what is.......

conclusive reality...is what is.......

Hi Lon,

Boy,...I dont know where to begin :sherlock:

I'll just touch on these points below -

This is assuming one comes to the text already having an opinion.

▲see▲ that's a preconception.

You'd need scripture before selling it. We challenge all presuppositional postulates.

Is your view of scriptural meanings and interpretations ENTIRELY free of 'preconceptions', 'presuppositional postulates', 'preferred translations', etc. ?

In any case,...I share what I know and perceive, call them points of view, insights, correlaries, inferences, understandings, assumptions, etc. - I admit points of view are subject to change. The only absolute reality is 'God' Himself, or which we more liberal hindus refer to as 'Brahman'. Absolute Reality is that which is always already Being....it includes most all the classical qualities and attributes of 'God' from a monotheist or monist context. And so it is


In-joy,


pj

 

[Lon]

Hi Lon,

Is your view of scriptural meanings and interpretations ENTIRELY free of 'preconceptions', 'presuppositional postulates', 'preferred translations', etc. ?

Hi Free. I wouldn't say completely, but I believe the scripture itself erases quite a few that you yet allow. That is, you are too much of a sucker for a nice story imho. Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through Him. You will read that inclusively from your presuppositions but I believe the scripture itself disallows the idea.

In any case,...I share what I know and perceive, call them points of view, insights, correlaries, inferences, understandings, assumptions, etc. - I admit points of view are subject to change. The only absolute reality is 'God' Himself, or which we more liberal hindus refer to as 'Brahman'. Absolute Reality is that which is always already Being....it includes most all the classical qualities and attributes of 'God' from a monotheist or monist context. And so it is


In-joy,


pj

Jesus talked about POV. It is the place from which you are standing. He talked about sand and solid rock. He also said He was the Cornerstone where men would either be established or would stumble respectively.
Again, it is an exclusive as well alternatively an inclusive message. You have to get that, you can't serve two masters, (or three or ten).

 

[Zeke]

Hi Lon,



Is your view of scriptural meanings and interpretations ENTIRELY free of 'preconceptions', 'presuppositional postulates', 'preferred translations', etc. ?



pj

Like Baretta (Robert Blake) said! you can take that to the bank.

 

[Elia]

All the OT prophets were Trinitarian.

Bs'd

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.

Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no JC, no David Koresh; NOBODY.

Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPER.

Yahweh came in the flesh as Malek Yahweh numerous times in the OT.[/FONT]

So according to the trinitarians God is not only his own son, and at the same time his own father, and his own servant, (Isaiah 53), but now also his own malakh/messenger.

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

"Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version"



"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version

"Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version

"Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." .... "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible

"Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" .... "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version

"Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version

"Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" .... "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version

"Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" .... "A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message

"‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... “You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version



"Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version

"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version

"A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version

"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version

"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version

"and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation



"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version

"thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation

"Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.

"*Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.

"It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible

"You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible


So the Bible teaches clearly that God is ONE.



"And J-e-h-o-v-a-h shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall J-e-h-o-v-a-h be one, and his name one." Zach 14:9 American Standard Version

"And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The LORD is one, And His name one." New King James Version

"And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one." English Standard Version

"And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one." Amplified Bible


What part of "God is ONE" is it that trinitarians don't understand?



Eliyahu, light unto the nations


"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5

 

[Lon]

Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPER.

And you get to define who He can and cannot be, because...?

Do you love the Lord Jesus Christ? Do you worship and adore Him?

 

[Apple7]

No orthodox Jew recognizes this 'assumption' or believes it.

Jews are ignorant of their scripture.

Your assumption is reading your preconceived concept of 'God' into the text to justify your own trinitarian view.

Its simple exegesis.

The former commentary to which your responding to stands. I dont need to 'explain' my understanding and knowledge of the Chrsitian Trinity to support my previous statements.

If you can't even define it - then you can't say it doesn't exist!

:dunce:

As shared previously, you'd have to share where this is taught clearly and definitively in the OT. This would be absurd for any orthodox Jew to believe. Remember, they dont share a 'christian' concept of 'G-d'.

The burning bush.

The Urantia Book's teaching on the Paradise Trinity is a cosmically enhanced and accentuated revelation adding greater depth and comprehension of the 'Godhead' than the traditional/orthodox teaching on the subject. It represents a 20th century expanded revelation on the glory of the Godhead, a most beautiful commentary. 'God' is not limited to any one set of books or holy writings, for the Infinite Spirit inspires progressive revelation appropriate to man's readiness and spiritual progress. - such are 'dispensations'.

As already stated...not a single....solitary....reference to scripture.

'Brahman' is the highest most absolute, universal conception of the ultimate all-supreme Being...even that reality prior to any conceptual form or idea of 'God', since it is the incorporeal womb and infinite Immensity that is indescribable, unnamable, prior to all forms and appearances. From IT (Infinite Being and Potential)...arises the phenomenal world and with it all forms. 'Brahman' is that reality before any conception of 'God'.

As googled from the web...

Go back and read my commentary to which you ask the above. Grasp what is written. I dont need 'scripture' to support the observations shared.

You don't know any scripture...how then can you rally against it!

:dunce:

Its still a presupposed, preconceived (read into) assumption that the verses in the OT are expressing a trinitarian theology as specifically defined by later Christian theology. There are millions of Jewish students of the Torah, and thousands of Christian believers that 'study' that Bible that are essentially UNITARIAN in their beliefs and Christology. So, this is not a 'clear fact' of many sincere students of the scriptures.

Show us one Bible verse that states that God is a monad.

As far as Unitarian/Trinitarian debates go, I did have 2 charter threads that were deleted in the recent trimmings due to their age.

1) - Unitarian Christianity
2) - Historic Arian Christianity

I would say I have a fair knowledge of the Trinity considering my studies (which are not just limited to historic Christian doctrinal developments). It just so happens that I dont think 'Unitarians' or 'Trinitarians' have an upper hand over anyone, or that one group is more favored by God, or even doctrinally correct...but this is more a pre-occupation of some of the rigid and dogmatic individuals from either camp.

My view of 'God' and 'reality' is much more liberal.



pj

No....you can't even tell us what you think the Trinity is.

:dunce:

 

[keypurr]

What is that story about Stones and Glass houses?

I think it had something to do with throwing stones.

Maybe it will come back to me.

 

[freelight]

'God' as 'unitary' is primal.......

'God' as 'unitary' is primal.......

I'd suggest you review and understand my last post...it was sufficient and still stands.

Jews are ignorant of their scripture.

The Orthodox Jews and their theologians are much more qualifed than you to know and interpret their own tradition and scriptures (recall that I made my statements from their perspective and fundamental belief-system).

Its simple exegesis.

Already addressed.

If you can't even define it - then you can't say it doesn't exist!

Already addressed.

The burning bush.

How does that prove a 'Trinity'?

As already stated...not a single....solitary....reference to scripture.

Doesnt have to. The description of the Paradise Trinity in the Urantia Papers far excells any older trinitarian concept of 'God', for the present dispensation, within a newly defined and expanded cosmological context. 'God' is not limited to any one collection of books, but gives more light (progressive revelation) as man is ready, plus the inspiration of the Spirit within. You cant put 'God' in a box.

As googled from the web...

Nice try, but the link is to a very good resource on Hinduism and its sister religious-traditions, and the commentary on 'Brahman' afterwards is my own. (not a copy & paste job - whatever is from another author I certainly "quote" and designate the source). I 'managed' our last 'Hinduism' thread with many commentaries there, but it got deleted with the recent trimmings. As a student of universal spirituality, with roots in Sanatana Dharma,....I think I'm somewhat familiar with the subjects I elaborate on.

You don't know any scripture...how then can you rally against it!

Your 'ad hominems' are noted.

Show us one Bible verse that states that God is a monad.

God is One...essentially, eternally, infinitely. No need to bring up the classic monotheistic passages that are already well known, besides the 'Oneness' of God being a sound and integral philosophical/metaphysical concept. Such a reality integral to existence, is Self-evident. I Am.

No....you can't even tell us what you think the Trinity is.

Already addressed.

'God' The Absolute is One...one divine original and universal reality. The Singularity of 'God' is fundamental, as the root, ground and context of All that is or ever will be. It is from this one 'Unity' or primal 'unit' of true substantial reality...that all forms are derived from, for from this original 'unit' of pure energy and consciousness...all multiples spring, up unto infinity.

The One Monad is primal to reality, the indivisibe center-source...which individes(distributes) itself thru-out creation, because there is no other source from which anything to derive. It forever remains, that 'God' is One (the first foremost numerical value). 'God' includes all as the 'One' and the 'Many'. All defined and quantified realities come from the first unitary value. This is the 'Universal Father' that Jesus calls us to worship, who alone is infinite.




pj

 

[Drake Shelton]

And you get to define who He can and cannot be, because...?

Do you love the Lord Jesus Christ? Do you worship and adore Him?

Have you not read in the Scriptures, John 14: 13 Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son?

1 Cor 15: 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after thatthose who are Christ’s at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father

Phil 2: 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The worship due to the Son is not absolute and ultimate but instrumental to the Father’s glorification as the Son is the visible representative of God on earth Col 1:15. On the contrary, what is the object of worship on the Sabellian system but a Monad? The Scripture knows nothing of Monad worship. It always speaks of a person, a him or a me to whom we owe worship. The worship and honor of the son new to him in the fullness of time is a consequence of his resurrection having received a raising of nature after the resurrection. (Acts 13:33)

 

[Drake Shelton]

TO THE BURNING BUSH REFERENCE:

In Exodus 3:7 we see Jehovah is speaking. However, from verse 2 we know that it was not the person of Jehovah speaking but the angel of Jehovah. Here we see how the Word of God is identified with the Father with reference to Nominal Numerics not Cardinal Numerics. With reference to Cardinal Numerics the two persons are distinct. With reference to Nominal Numerics, the Word speaks for the Father as if the two were wearing the same jersey or as Samuel Clarke puts it, that the Word appears in the name, or bears the name of the Father in the economia.

 

[Tambora]

Jesus is God !

Yes, I know.
Hallelujah!

 

[Apple7]

I'd suggest you review and understand my last post...it was sufficient and still stands.

Which googled part?

The Orthodox Jews and their theologians are much more qualifed than you to know and interpret their own tradition and scriptures (recall that I made my statements from their perspective and fundamental belief-system).

Then invite them here to help you out...

Doesnt have to. The description of the Paradise Trinity in the Urantia Papers far excells any older trinitarian concept of 'God', for the present dispensation, within a newly defined and expanded cosmological context. 'God' is not limited to any one collection of books, but gives more light (progressive revelation) as man is ready, plus the inspiration of the Spirit within. You cant put 'God' in a box.

No scripture.

No reference with which to compare.

Simply more of your meritless assertions...

Nice try, but the link is to a very good resource on Hinduism and its sister religious-traditions, and the commentary on 'Brahman' afterwards is my own. (not a copy & paste job - whatever is from another author I certainly "quote" and designate the source). I 'managed' our last 'Hinduism' thread with many commentaries there, but it got deleted with the recent trimmings. As a student of universal spirituality, with roots in Sanatana Dharma,....I think I'm somewhat familiar with the subjects I elaborate on.

Errr...no, you are not.

Your understanding is merely superficial and is gleaned from googling the internet from publicly editable wiki sites.

Not impressed.

God is One...essentially, eternally, infinitely. No need to bring up the classic monotheistic passages that are already well known, besides the 'Oneness' of God being a sound and integral philosophical/metaphysical concept. Such a reality integral to existence, is Self-evident. I Am.

Still waiting for that one Biblical verse which states that God is a monad.

When can we expect you to address scripture instead of talking endlessly around it...?

'God' The Absolute is One...one divine original and universal reality. The Singularity of 'God' is fundamental, as the root, ground and context of All that is or ever will be. It is from this one 'Unity' or primal 'unit' of true substantial reality...that all forms are derived from, for from this original 'unit' of pure energy and consciousness...all multiples spring, up unto infinity.

The One Monad is primal to reality, the indivisibe center-source...which individes(distributes) itself thru-out creation, because there is no other source from which anything to derive. It forever remains, that 'God' is One (the first foremost numerical value). 'God' includes all as the 'One' and the 'Many'. All defined and quantified realities come from the first unitary value. This is the 'Universal Father' that Jesus calls us to worship, who alone is infinite.

That's not the Trinity.

No wonder you are so confused.

 

[freelight]

I and the Father are One

I and the Father are One

Which googled part?


Then invite them here to help you out...


No scripture.

No reference with which to compare.

Simply more of your meritless assertions...


Errr...no, you are not.

Your understanding is merely superficial and is gleaned from googling the internet from publicly editable wiki sites.

Not impressed.


Still waiting for that one Biblical verse which states that God is a monad.

When can we expect you to address scripture instead of talking endlessly around it...?


That's not the Trinity.

No wonder you are so confused.

There is no confusion about God, when one realizes 'God' is One, in essence and value. - one is free to entertain a compound of divine personalities (bi-unity or trinity), gods or goddesses (single or within a pantheon), or any other conceptions or 'pesonalizations' of 'God',...yet the Oneness of 'God' remains as the primal unit and value.

God is.

God in his primal essence...is before, behind and beyond all conception. When you abandon all concepts of 'God',...then there is only 'God' there, Self-evident....as One. I Am that. - all else that arises to this Awareness comes and goes. But this Light that I Am remains.

As far as proving Jesus is God (the subject of the thread), my previous questions and commentary remain, for such remains 'unprovable'...but only assumed within a particular 'belief-system' and 'theology'.

A more direct approach to reality is discovering your own true Nature, whose origin is 'God', since your own existence could not be seperate from its Heart-source. If you want to know 'God', that includes first dropping all your beliefs about and concepts of 'God' and letting 'God' be.

Then you might be able to understand more how Jesus is really 'God' (apart from theological assumptions), by seeing your own 'being' and God's 'Being' as inseperable.




pj

 

[Apple7]

As far as proving Jesus is God (the subject of the thread), my previous questions and commentary remain, for such remains 'unprovable'...but only assumed within a particular 'belief-system' and 'theology'.

Dead.

Wrong.

Scripture easily demonstrates that Jesus is God.

 

[DaveDodo007]

Jesus is God !

I can only assume you don't own a passport. How about doing a bit of traveling around the world before you make such insular claims.

 

[freelight]

looking beyond concepts....

looking beyond concepts....

Dead.

Wrong.

Scripture easily demonstrates that Jesus is God.

Thats your 'interpreation' of the matter. I can equally assume Jesus is 'God' just as I can hold a metaphysical equation that all sentient beings are 'God' in individual expression; we all being individualizations of 'God' because 'God' is the life-essence and 'awareness' pervading all.

I Am. - this pure ontological foundation is Self-evident, or is 'God' recognizing its own 'being'. From a non-dual point of view, where my own 'awareness' is non-different from 'God', because it is the source and substance of such...I can say with Jesus that "I and the Father are one"...because I've come to 'see' that intimate relationship whose unity is a primal core-essence. Right this moment,....to me,....all there is...is God. 'God' is the light of this conscious-being, this living energy-awarness that originates all,permeates all, encompasses all.

God cannot exist anywhere outside this "I" of awareness, therefore is the root of the "I" consciousness and includes all that arises as the content of consciousness. ('God' remains prior to and transcending all things) Yep,....Consciousness is all there is (in a manner of speaking )

I'd investigate my theological 'position' a bit more closely, and see if such a 'belief' is even necessary. Granted, the Lord Jesus is given the due proper respect he is entitled, but within its "proper context" and this is key. Unitarian POV's are just as valid as Trinitarian ones because they are just that - points of view (POV).

The Infinite Spirit and Intelligence at the Heart of all remains universal. From here we see 2 levels of reality, the 'absolute' and the 'relative'. Only 'Real God' is absolute, all concepts, forms, images, personalities spring from 'God' are more or less 'relative' because they are contextualized within relationship frames. Therefore, one can hold a Trinitarian view of 'God' while accepting One divine Essence, but such can also become 'idolatry' if the conceptual formula of the 'Godhead' becomes worshipped more than the actual Spirit-Presence itself. This is when dogma clouds the pure vision of the soul to its eternal source, and idolatry seeps in.

Still, no one can prove Jesus is God outside of a prefigured, contextualized and specific religious assumption of such being the case, and even then it is only supported by the particular 'proofs' of that belief-system. This is fine and well, if such serves as a positive vehicle of religious values, character-building, social service, personal transformation, etc. I would just have you look beyond your preconceived notions and assumptions. This includes myself too of course, as I continue my journey to know and discover 'God'. Concepts and ideologies have their place, but they are only instruments.



pj

 

[Apple7]

Thats your 'interpreation' of the matter. I can equally assume Jesus is 'God' just as I can hold a metaphysical equation that all sentient beings are 'God' in individual expression; we all being individualizations of 'God' because 'God' is the life-essence and 'awareness' pervading all.

I Am. - this pure ontological foundation is Self-evident, or is 'God' recognizing its own 'being'. From a non-dual point of view, where my own 'awareness' is non-different from 'God', because it is the source and substance of such...I can say with Jesus that "I and the Father are one"...because I've come to 'see' that intimate relationship whose unity is a primal core-essence. Right this moment,....to me,....all there is...is God. 'God' is the light of this conscious-being, this living energy-awarness that originates all,permeates all, encompasses all.

God cannot exist anywhere outside this "I" of awareness, therefore is the root of the "I" consciousness and includes all that arises as the content of consciousness. ('God' remains prior to and transcending all things) Yep,....Consciousness is all there is (in a manner of speaking )

I'd investigate my theological 'position' a bit more closely, and see if such a 'belief' is even necessary. Granted, the Lord Jesus is given the due proper respect he is entitled, but within its "proper context" and this is key. Unitarian POV's are just as valid as Trinitarian ones because they are just that - points of view (POV).

The Infinite Spirit and Intelligence at the Heart of all remains universal. From here we see 2 levels of reality, the 'absolute' and the 'relative'. Only 'Real God' is absolute, all concepts, forms, images, personalities spring from 'God' are more or less 'relative' because they are contextualized within relationship frames. Therefore, one can hold a Trinitarian view of 'God' while accepting One divine Essence, but such can also become 'idolatry' if the conceptual formula of the 'Godhead' becomes worshipped more than the actual Spirit-Presence itself. This is when dogma clouds the pure vision of the soul to its eternal source, and idolatry seeps in.

Still, no one can prove Jesus is God outside of a prefigured, contextualized and specific religious assumption of such being the case, and even then it is only supported by the particular 'proofs' of that belief-system. This is fine and well, if such serves as a positive vehicle of religious values, character-building, social service, personal transformation, etc. I would just have you look beyond your preconceived notions and assumptions. This includes myself too of course, as I continue my journey to know and discover 'God'. Concepts and ideologies have their place, but they are only instruments.



pj

Here are two verses which mandate that Jesus is God...

προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου


σιμων πετρος δουλος και αποστολος ιησου χριστου τοις ισοτιμον ημιν λαχουσιν πιστιν εν δικαιοσυνη του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου

 

[keypurr]

Dead.

Wrong.

Scripture easily demonstrates that Jesus is God.

Then why do folks disagree so much?

Jesus has a God Apple, deal with it.

Jesus is the son of the most high God.

 

[Apple7]

Then why do folks disagree so much?

Because some people, like you, refuse to study scripture.

Jesus has a God Apple, deal with it.

Jesus is the son of the most high God.

How does this supposedly thwart the Trinity, pops?

It doesn't.

But...you don't even know what the Trinity is....:dunce: