WEC I have no problem with them being of the same substance. My sons carry my DNA/rib, we are one substance but two, or thee in this case, distinct individuals . I am not my sons and my sons are not me. I am their father and they are my sons. It is really that simple.
Jesus is God !
- Thread starter beloved57
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WEC I have no problem with them being of the same substance. My sons carry my DNA/rib, we are one substance but two, or thee in this case, distinct individuals . I am not my sons and my sons are not me. I am their father and they are my sons. It is really that simple.
Wile E. Coyote
New member
And the Father is not the Word and the Word is not the Father. But because they are one being (substance) they are both called "God."
The man is not the woman and the woman is not the man. But because they are one being (substance) they are both called "Adam."
The woman was Adam because she was from Adam's side and at his side she was WITH him.
Together they were in God's image. Therefore, God's image is 2 in 1.
There were gods of of other peoples then just as there are today, ie Mohammad, Buddha.
Jesus is God. Of course, I know you do not believe that.
Wile E. Coyote
New member
Why can't you comprehend what I am saying. It certainly does make them the same God but not the same person. Got it now? Geez! :bang:
The man and the woman were ONE Adam but TWO persons. :bang:
Who said anything about the Trinity?
keypurr
Well-known member
I love Dolly stories.
Even Dolly had a source. She just did not come to life without a source. Dolly is NOT her source.
Just like Christ is not God. If Christ is the express image of God, God is the source and Christ is Christ. Two seperate beings. In this case Christ was created from God like Dolly was created from her source. But only ONE is the original.
Is Christ a god? Yes
Is he the only true God? No
keypurr
Well-known member
We found something to disagree on. Your sons are a combination of you and your wife's DNA. Therfore different substance. Christ is a copy of the Father's substance, not the same as but a copy of.
keypurr
Well-known member
I think he was a god. God gave him his fullness. Jesus said all power has been given to me.
But if he was God why would he need the powers to be given to him? Why did God evevate him to Lord of All Creation if he was God he could have done that himself?
Mar_5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Luk_8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Think about that my friend Jesus is not the most high God, who is his God? Hint, his Father.
keypurr
Well-known member
Maybe you need some teaching skills.
To know and to teach are two different things.
Your words:
Together they were in God's image. Therefore, God's image is 2 in 1
It seems your starting to get the message.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
transmorphing 'God'.....
transmorphing 'God'.....
Hi Lon
I was just sharing a more 'Unitarian' perspective on the matter. A Trinitarian would be more likely to identify the 'logos' as being God, from a prefigured concept of Jesus being in an eternal 'Godhead'. On a relational level, I think a Unitarian view is well enough, with the logos being that rational principle God uses in bringing forth creation, whether you choose to personalize the 'logos' or not.
There are some translations that say "the word was 'divine', and some that say the word was "a" god...but we wont go there just yet. We could open a thread just on John 1:1, but more on that later perhaps.
There is more emphasis on Jesus being the 'Son' of God IMO,...any sharing of divinity with Jesus is more 'relational' because of that Sonship, but the greater Infinite Spirit-presence or Deity is always the Father. You'll note that eternal life in the gospel of John comes from believing 'God' sent His Son, and believing his word that you may have eternal life. See John 20:31 - eternal life is in the 'testimony' that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. There is no passage that says one has to believe Jesus is 'God' (per ones theology) in order to be saved.
Its natural to assume the Son takes on the divine nature of the Father, so in that sense....Jesus represents God. A Unitarian or Trinitarian view on this relationship could be had, but thats a matter of 'interpretation, point of view'.
I do not rob the Lord Jesus or any other avatar of their glory, only to say that glory belongs to All-Mighty 'God' Alone, the ineffable, omnipresent, indivisible, eternal, infinite, incorporeal, transcendent God-Presence, which alone is the source and support of all that exists in name and form. Remember John 4:24 (in context). God is Spirit and worship is ALWAYS directed towards the pure essence of Deity Alone (no matter what form or personality 'God' is expressing in....it is still 'God' alone that is venerated).
I think its a fundamental concept, that only God is God....and a more liberal one that He/She can manifest in/as any number of forms or personalities. This would certainly include Jesus as an 'avatar' of God.
Remember as a meta-theist and mystic, I include the religious traditions and metaphysics of both east and west,...being a student of universal spirituality, with more of an understudy in Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism)...holding a place of unique and synthesized understanding on the board here. Being very eclectic and liberal minded, I can share one point of view or many, but that does not mean it is my personally perferred view, or the only acceptable one. Anyone familiar with my theology knows this - I just happen to tend towards a more Unitarian preference at times (especially among die-hard more dogmatic Trinitarians who tend to be 'rigid' in their belief-system).
As a more pure spiritualist or mystic....I see God in all, and all in God (monist/pan-en-theist), - differences are just the mind making distinctions, seperating 'this' from 'that', the assumption of duality.
All comes from God and returns to God...because the Substance of all substances, Mind of all minds, Soul of all souls, is 'God'. 'God' is the root of all existence and its potentials, the Being of beings...or the Self(atman) abiding in all sentient beings.
As far as the analogy of good ole Dolly,...not sure this can be applied here as a perfect correlation to the relationship between Jesus and God (much more complex granted added theological definitions). Dolly the sheep is that one individual animal-form,..there are NOT two Dollies. Its one sheep (not siamese twins). Saying there are two makes no sense unless you 'qualify' how she is two.
Still not getting the Dolly analogy, for we see her biological origin had 3 contributors. Still Dolly is not "2" or "3" but one entity in the form of her species....just like you alone have your own unique 'form' and 'personality' as an 'individual'.
pj
transmorphing 'God'.....
Hi Lon
I was just sharing a more 'Unitarian' perspective on the matter. A Trinitarian would be more likely to identify the 'logos' as being God, from a prefigured concept of Jesus being in an eternal 'Godhead'. On a relational level, I think a Unitarian view is well enough, with the logos being that rational principle God uses in bringing forth creation, whether you choose to personalize the 'logos' or not.
There are some translations that say "the word was 'divine', and some that say the word was "a" god...but we wont go there just yet. We could open a thread just on John 1:1, but more on that later perhaps.
There is more emphasis on Jesus being the 'Son' of God IMO,...any sharing of divinity with Jesus is more 'relational' because of that Sonship, but the greater Infinite Spirit-presence or Deity is always the Father. You'll note that eternal life in the gospel of John comes from believing 'God' sent His Son, and believing his word that you may have eternal life. See John 20:31 - eternal life is in the 'testimony' that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. There is no passage that says one has to believe Jesus is 'God' (per ones theology) in order to be saved.
Its natural to assume the Son takes on the divine nature of the Father, so in that sense....Jesus represents God. A Unitarian or Trinitarian view on this relationship could be had, but thats a matter of 'interpretation, point of view'.
I do not rob the Lord Jesus or any other avatar of their glory, only to say that glory belongs to All-Mighty 'God' Alone, the ineffable, omnipresent, indivisible, eternal, infinite, incorporeal, transcendent God-Presence, which alone is the source and support of all that exists in name and form. Remember John 4:24 (in context). God is Spirit and worship is ALWAYS directed towards the pure essence of Deity Alone (no matter what form or personality 'God' is expressing in....it is still 'God' alone that is venerated).
I think its a fundamental concept, that only God is God....and a more liberal one that He/She can manifest in/as any number of forms or personalities. This would certainly include Jesus as an 'avatar' of God.
Remember as a meta-theist and mystic, I include the religious traditions and metaphysics of both east and west,...being a student of universal spirituality, with more of an understudy in Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism)...holding a place of unique and synthesized understanding on the board here. Being very eclectic and liberal minded, I can share one point of view or many, but that does not mean it is my personally perferred view, or the only acceptable one. Anyone familiar with my theology knows this
- I just happen to tend towards a more Unitarian preference at times (especially among die-hard more dogmatic Trinitarians who tend to be 'rigid' in their belief-system).As a more pure spiritualist or mystic....I see God in all, and all in God (monist/pan-en-theist), - differences are just the mind making distinctions, seperating 'this' from 'that', the assumption of duality.
All comes from God and returns to God...because the Substance of all substances, Mind of all minds, Soul of all souls, is 'God'. 'God' is the root of all existence and its potentials, the Being of beings...or the Self(atman) abiding in all sentient beings.
As far as the analogy of good ole Dolly,...not sure this can be applied here as a perfect correlation to the relationship between Jesus and God (much more complex granted added theological definitions). Dolly the sheep is that one individual animal-form,..there are NOT two Dollies. Its one sheep (not siamese twins). Saying there are two makes no sense unless you 'qualify' how she is two.
Still not getting the Dolly analogy, for we see her biological origin had 3 contributors. Still Dolly is not "2" or "3" but one entity in the form of her species....just like you alone have your own unique 'form' and 'personality' as an 'individual'.
pj
Zeke
Well-known member
I would see it as being a metaphore for awaking to consciousness. Christ within the mystery of the kingdom of God in the human body! the temple made without hands is found in the ancient science of atsrotheology, why else would the christ be crucified on a mount refered to as a skull, a clue to the seeker that opens up the story as being mythology but also applicational when the key is found, and it aint any religion.
Grace, Zeke
SeraphimsCherub
New member
Luk 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
Luk 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Only GOD has the power,and authority to forgive sins. Therefore because JESUS can forgive sins,that means HE IS GOD!
Luk 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
Luk 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Only GOD has the power,and authority to forgive sins. Therefore because JESUS can forgive sins,that means HE IS GOD!
Luk 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
keypurr
Well-known member
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
keypurr
Well-known member
To be honest, I have little knowledge of mythology. But I do think there is a reason for everything.
Stop banging your head against the wall WEC you will get a head ache.
They are of the same substance but are two distinct individuals.
That their NAME was Adam does not make them the same being.
Man and woman are not exactly alike if you have not figured that out already.:wave: LOL
It is the same as with God and Jesus, same DNA but totally two different beings. One is the Father, the other is the Son and they both have the same NAME, God.
Jewish history shows that when a male child is born it was a common practise to NAME the first male child after the NAME of the Father.
They carry the same NAME but are NOT the same being.
Not really Keypurr, I thought of that when I was writing what I did but did not want to muddy the waters so to speak. And Jesus was born of Mary so also had a combination of two DNA.
You missed the point of those scriptures you qouted SC. The scibes and Pharisees where the ones who said only God could forgive sins, Jesus corrected their error. Tis why Jesus taught us to forgive one another when one sins against us.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Mythicism
Mythicism
'Mythology' is a sub-study of religion/philosophy/culture so its metaphoric and allegorical values hold, since the 'world soul' and 'individual soul' is impressed with the symbols therein. A Mythicist view also has its place, although seeing most religious symbols and 'stories' reflecting the psyches own exploration of meanings about 'God' and the 'world'. You'll note that religious beliefs are often built upon and 'contextualized' within 'stories' which the religionist may 'assume' as actual historical events. Even if they cannot proved to be 'historical', they are still 'valuable' as story-illustrations or lessons.
pj
Mythicism
'Mythology' is a sub-study of religion/philosophy/culture so its metaphoric and allegorical values hold, since the 'world soul' and 'individual soul' is impressed with the symbols therein. A Mythicist view also has its place, although seeing most religious symbols and 'stories' reflecting the psyches own exploration of meanings about 'God' and the 'world'. You'll note that religious beliefs are often built upon and 'contextualized' within 'stories' which the religionist may 'assume' as actual historical events. Even if they cannot proved to be 'historical', they are still 'valuable' as story-illustrations or lessons.
pj
keypurr
Well-known member
Thank you friend, I knew that though. But I have never got deep into the subject of Mythslogy itself, Astrology has also not been of interest to me. But it seems lately I have come across a relationship with thoes and theology. I see you as a person well versed in this stuff.