Jesus is God? Or Jesus is begotten of God?

[keypurr]

Nope.

Yer the only one confused.

Where you run amiss is thinking that a spirit is not a soul.

The spirit and soul of God's son took on a flesh body.

In Mary's womb.

Not at his baptism.

I respect your right to disagree. But don't ever think that I do not respect my God or my Lord. I see them in a deeper way than most.

 

[patrick jane]

I respect your right to disagree. But don't ever think that I do not respect my God or my Lord. I see them in a deeper way than most.

Proverbs 26:8 KJV

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I respect your right to disagree. But don't ever think that I do not respect my God or my Lord. I see them in a deeper way than most.

What does that have to do with my post?

How many souls do you think the son of God had?

 

[patrick jane]

What does that have to do with my post?

How many souls do you think the son of God had?

39,476

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

39,476

Watch you talkin' bout, Willis?

 

[keypurr]

What does that have to do with my post?

How many souls do you think the son of God had?

You said that I belittled Jesus Christ in you past post. I took it as it was written. I never belittled him.

The son of God existed at the start of creation, that was not Jesus. That was the spiritual son, the express image of the creator. This is the son that lowered himself to become flesh in Jesus, the body prepared for him. They became one. This all happened at the anointing of Jesus. Not before. The Seed came with the power of his Father, the power to lay the foundation of the Universe. That is the power he received in Acts 10:38.

 

[patrick jane]

Watch you talkin' bout, Willis?

50 billion ?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

You said that I belittled Jesus Christ in you past post. I took it as it was written. I never belittled him.

The son of God existed at the start of creation, that was not Jesus. That was the spiritual son, the express image of the creator. This is the son that lowered himself to become flesh in Jesus, the body prepared for him. They became one. This all happened at the anointing of Jesus. Not before. The Seed came with the power of his Father, the power to lay the foundation of the Universe. That is the power he received in Acts 10:38.

Answer my question.

How many souls do you think the son of God had?

Or do you reckon he split his soul in half and then merged with Jesus to complete it or what?

C'mon man yer looney tunes.:chuckle:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

50 billion ?

One.

 

[keypurr]

Answer my question.

How many souls do you think the son of God had?

Or do you reckon he split his soul in half and then merged with Jesus to complete it or what?

C'mon man yer looney tunes.:chuckle:

Did you read my post? I said they became one. What does that mean to you?

Define your definition of soul. Jesus existed to be the holder of the seed. You do not understand that. How many spirits can be in you? Jesus cast out a legion in one person.

I am either crazy or enlighten, the majority thought the Apostles were crazy. You decide for yourself.

 

[patrick jane]

One.

oh yeah

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Did you read my post? I said they became one. What does that mean to you?

Define your definition of soul. Jesus existed to be the holder of the seed. You do not understand that. How many spirits can be in you? Jesus cast out a legion in one person.

I am either crazy or enlighten, the majority thought the Apostles were crazy. You decide for yourself.

Soul is the awareness that one is.

God is spirit, yet he has a mind and soul.

So does his son.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

oh yeah

:granite:

 

[keypurr]

Soul is the awareness that one is.

God is spirit, yet he has a mind and soul.

Same with his son.

Jesus Christ became one in the flesh, why would you ask the question in the first place?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Jesus Christ became one in the flesh,

Jesus Christ became one what in the flesh?

why would you ask the question in the first place?

To find out what yer thinkin'.

Dont tell me yer thinkin' Jesus and Christ became one soul.

That is an impossibility.

 

[God's Truth]

We'll have to explore that a bit more then, as far as particulars go

I was just noting that Trinitarian theology holds that all 3 divine personalities share the same 'essence', that 'essence' is indivisible being 'one', yet the 3 personalities in that 'Godhead' are unique, distinct unto themselves within that compound unity. Since 'God' is Spirit, of course they are "one in spirit". Apart from our terms and definition,....its just semantics.

It is absurd that the trinitarian doctrine says the same essence is not the Spirit. The trinitarian doctrine says their doctrine is not explainable. Since they cannot explain their doctrine, they should stop trying to defend it and call it true.

Noted. But there would still seem to be some problems with your view to some people, relationally speaking, since Jesus claimed the Father was greater than he,

God did not pretend to be a Man; He really came as a Man. Of course, God the Father in heaven is Greater than being in the likeness of sinful flesh.

besides many instances of Jesus talking to himself?,

Why do you think Jesus was talking to himself? Don’t you remember I said there are three?

and clearly referring to have his own 'will', yet submitting his will to the Fathers (this indicates 2 persons, one subjecting themselves to the other),...and we could go on.

There are two, and they are the same. Jesus only did his Father’s will. Jesus only said what the Father said. Jesus only did what the Father did.
John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 8:28 So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

John 12:49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

John 12:50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

I'm just curious about your 'Christology', and probing some of the finer or more subtle points.

I am glad to discuss it with you.

I think I've clarified here and elsewhere, that relationally...the Father and Jesus are clearly different/separate personalities, and RELATE to each other as such (at least in the gospels narratives). I don't think there could be 'commoner' sense to see that much.

There is nothing separate about God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son.
Even when we see Jesus, Jesus says we see the Father.

There is nothing wrong with recognizing the spiritual unity (or 'oneness') between Jesus and the Father, but making them the same 'being' runs into some metaphysical complications. Note too that in John 17 Jesus is praying that we be ONE with him and he and the Father are one, were we are all one in 'spiritual community'. Does that make us 'God the Father'? Also note Paul's metaphor of we being the 'body of Christ'. Don't forget, much of these 'terms' are 'figurative'.

Jesus put us in him so that he can put us in the Father.
That shows us that they are the same.
Jesus is God with a body.

You've touted this line before. All we have are the canonized gospels in the NT to go by, since you probably only 'assume' those as the official or accurate records of Jesus words, however I don't since I draw from other re-sources as well. But in any case,...the clear distinction between Jesus and 'God' in the gospel accounts are plentiful, and rational. Doing what Jesus says is another issue altogether! (you've got lots of folks worshipping an 'image' or 'concept' of Jesus, but rejecting a lot of what he says, due to dispensational reasons, and whatever).

The whole New Testament is Jesus’ words.
You would know the whole Bible is true by finding out the way Jesus says.
See John 7:17.

This depends on how you qualify and define your statement. That Jesus came to earth and revealed 'God' to us, is a reasonable assumption, for he came as the 'agent' or 'representative' of 'God', God's Messenger/Prophet. He was anointed by 'God', and filled with God's Spirit,...so sure, you could say he was 'God' manifesting in the flesh if that concept pleases you.

Jesus came from heaven.


No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven--the Son of Man. See John 3:13.

God sent his Son into the world. John 3:17.

Jesus came from the Father. See John 1:14.

Jesus came down from heaven. See John 6:38. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

John 6:62
Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!


John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Some of these propositions are really semantics or 'cosmetics', until we see that most of us agree in the fundamental import of Jesus ministry and teaching, minus the frills. As I've share before,...what really matter is what Jesus COMMUNICATES as the manifestation of God to us, and how we also with him join in making ourselves yieled vessels to ALSO manifest and express God. That's the main essential here, to know God, be like him, obey his word (divine laws/principles) and to grow in love, becoming more perfect like our Father in heaven. Christologies may differ, and they do within Christendom,...but the essentials remain.

Jesus spoke to me and revealed himself to me because I did exactly as he said to do in the Holy Bible.

 

[RBBI]

Let me take another stab at this. Keypurr, you see something, but you're also missing something.

Jesus, the flesh man, had a different father than normal men. That mean's he didn't have the same seed/spirit, as say, the Pharisees he rebuked telling them they were of their father the devil. The spirit is as a male because it plants the seed. Since all seeds bear fruit after their own kind, His kind was the Father.

So He has this Seed, yet clearly it was not "activated" until He was 30. If it had been, He'd have been healing his playmates, and walking on water then. He didn't. So why didn't He?

We are told elsewhere: ONE PLANTS, ANOTHER WATERS, but HaShem gives the increase. Who is the another that waters the Seed? Put another way, what happened to the Seed when the dove came down? The Seed was CAUGHT UP into His mother's womb, New Jerusalem, BORN FROM ABOVE, as the pattern Son, which the Father then witnessed to by saying, this is my beloved Son.

The Son Seed is not one, but two in union; just as with 100% natural men, He bears characteristics of both father and mother. For this cause shall a man leave Father AND MOTHER, and cleave unto His wife. Once He was caught up to mother, He could then "leave" her to cleave unto His wife, ie. His true body that is JOINED TO HIM IN THE SAME WAY.

The "lovely" Greek obscured this by the translators choosing "born again" instead of born from ABOVE. A WORLD of difference, since our mother wisdom built New Jerusalem, the city made without hands that our Father Abraham looked for, is that place we are to be born from. Peace

 

[oatmeal]

Christians here at TOL, do you believe that God and Jesus are the exact same being? Or do you think that Jesus is divine and begotten of God but not the same being?


From the words of the new testament it seems to me that Jesus is a separate entity. For example he says that even he doesn't know when the end times are, and that only God does. How could Jesus not know what God does if they are the exact same being?

Since scriptures differentiate between God and His son, so should we. Several examples are Acts 2:22-36, I Timothy 2:5, John 20:31, Romans 1:1-4, 10:9, John 10:29,14:28 etc.

As to your second question, what is your definition of "divine"?

II Peter 1:3-4 states that we can partake of the divine nature. That being the case, are we God? Divine therefore, cannot mean being God, but rather of or proceeding or the result of God. We can partake of those things that proceed from God, like love, light, truth, salvation, good works, but we cannot be God anymore than Jesus could be God himself. (See first paragraph above.)

 

[RBBI]

Since scriptures differentiate between God and His son, so should we. Several examples are Acts 2:22-36, I Timothy 2:5, John 20:31, Romans 1:1-4, 10:9, John 10:29,14:28 etc.

Amen...

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Let me take another stab at this. Keypurr, you see something, but you're also missing something.

Jesus, the flesh man, had a different father than normal men. That mean's he didn't have the same seed/spirit, as say, the Pharisees he rebuked telling them they were of their father the devil. The spirit is as a male because it plants the seed. Since all seeds bear fruit after their own kind, His kind was the Father.

So He has this Seed, yet clearly it was not "activated" until He was 30. If it had been, He'd have been healing his playmates, and walking on water then. He didn't. So why didn't He?

We are told elsewhere: ONE PLANTS, ANOTHER WATERS, but HaShem gives the increase. Who is the another that waters the Seed? Put another way, what happened to the Seed when the dove came down? The Seed was CAUGHT UP into His mother's womb, New Jerusalem, BORN FROM ABOVE, as the pattern Son, which the Father then witnessed to by saying, this is my beloved Son.

The Son Seed is not one, but two in union; just as with 100% natural men, He bears characteristics of both father and mother. For this cause shall a man leave Father AND MOTHER, and cleave unto His wife. Once He was caught up to mother, He could then "leave" her to cleave unto His wife, ie. His true body that is JOINED TO HIM IN THE SAME WAY.

The "lovely" Greek obscured this by the translators choosing "born again" instead of born from ABOVE. A WORLD of difference, since our mother wisdom built New Jerusalem, the city made without hands that our Father Abraham looked for, is that place we are to be born from. Peace

Enlightening.


1 Corinthians 2:13 KJV


13 Which things also we speak , not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth ; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.