Jesus Has ALREADY Reconciled Us and the World to God. No Religion Was Needed

[beloved57]

No, we are created for the glory of God. God's purpose for the Christian is that he will become a witness for Christ and his Gospel.

James was one of the first books of the Bible. James had not yet learned the Gospel from Paul. He believed like you do that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:21. He was religious.

All who believe the Gospel are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit working in the life of the believer that will produce the Christian life and good works. It is all of God.

RELIGION: Man's preoccupation with his own spirituality.

CHRISTIANITY: Man's preoccupation with Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

You teach that sinners are saved by the works of the law, that's man made religion.

 

[Nanja]

You teach that sinners are saved by the works of the law, that's man made religion.

Absolutely!

 

[Robert Pate]

Good. Then we agree that good works are a part of being a Christian. Even though earlier you said "Works are religion. Religion is about you and your works."



You don't know that. You are making stuff up. I don't deny that James was written early but Paul's conversion by most biblical scholars happened in about 33-36 A.D. before any New Testament book was written. Even the book of James is dated to about a decade after that.



OMG. Where did I say that we must keep the law of Moses? Not only are you wrong about that (pretending to know what I believe).....how in the world can you say that that is what James believed almost 2,000 years ago? That isn't what he was saying.

Geez, read verse 20 at least and get some context. He is saying they should avoid idolatry and sexual immorality, etc. That isn't a bad thing. That is a good thing. And everyone (including Paul) agree with him because Paul went: "... through the cities, they delivered to them the decrees to keep, which were determined by the apostles and elders at Jerusalem." (Acts 16:4)

So whatever you want to use Acts 15:21 to show about James...well, it also applies to Paul. Acts 16:4 shows this.



Then so was Paul.



Good! Then we agree! Good works are a part of Christianity. Of course it is the Spirit working in the life of the believer (praise God!). But Christians are not puppets. The Spirit cannot use a believer to do good works unless the believer cooperates with the Spirit. He doesn't override our free will.



If that is your definition, like I've said before, I see no Christians that fit that description. Not Calvinists, not Catholics, not Lutherans, not Methodists, not Presbyterians, not non-denom's, not anybody.

I find those Christians to be preoccupied with knowing, loving, and serving Jesus Christ and His Father. I don't think I've ever met a Christian who is preoccupied with themselves.



So Christianity is a preoccupation?

Ok. That's not bad. To be preoccupied with Christ and His Gospel can be good.

Especially if it is in the sense of wanting to know, love, and serve Him like Calvinists, Catholics, Lutherans, and all the rest do.

It's kindof a narrow definition, though. People can be preoccupied with Christ and His Gospel in the sense that they constantly work to prove He wasn't God or didn't exist or wasn't special or miracles can't happen, or He didn't raise from the dead, etc.

So I don't think a "preoccupation" with Christ is the best definition of Christianity.

Christianity is about Christ and his Gospel.

Religion is about you trying to be like Christ.

The religious person, who is a sinner is preoccupied with his holy life.

The religious person, who is a sinner is preoccupied with his victory over sin.

The religious person, who is a sinner is preoccupied with his righteousness.

The religious person, who is a sinner is preoccupied with his death to sin.

The religious person, who is a sinner is preoccupied with his piety.

 

[beloved57]

Pate

Christianity is about Christ and his Gospel.

Which Gospel you don't believe, for you don't believe that Christ death alone saved them He died for. That is the Gospel!

 

[Robert Pate]

Pate



Which Gospel you don't believe, for you don't believe that Christ death alone saved them He died for. That is the Gospel!

There is only one Gospel and it is NOT Calvinism.

What you have is LIMITED brain power.

T. To stupid for anyone to believe.
U. Unlimited heresy.
L. Limited brain power.
I. Impossible doctrine
P. Perverts the scriptures.

 

[beloved57]

Wrong post

 

[beloved57]

But you dont need faith to be saved. So how do you know you're of the elect since it's not a requirement?

Don't know what you talking about.

 

[beloved57]

There is only one Gospel and it is NOT Calvinism.

What you have is LIMITED brain power.

T. To stupid for anyone to believe.
U. Unlimited heresy.
L. Limited brain power.
I. Impossible doctrine
P. Perverts the scriptures.

You don't believe the Gospel, you don't believe that Christ death saved them He died for. Without that truth there's no Gospel,no Good News.

 

[beloved57]

Nonan

You quite often say that faith is not a requirement for salvation.

Its not. Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they were enemies. Rom 5:10 so how was faith a required to be reconciled?

 

[beloved57]

Which is the point I was trying to make. Do you find comfort in Jesus knowing that considering faith is not a requirement for salvation? If a non elect person were to believe in Jesus (using your terms of salvation) then they are unsaved. But they wouldnt know about it until after death.

I don't know what you mean. Do you understand that faith didn't reconcile man to God, but His Death did? Rom 5:10

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Christianity is about Christ and his Gospel.

Amen. It is a preoccupation....right?

Religion is about you trying to be like Christ.

That seems ok since the Holy Spirit, through Paul, tells us to do that in 1 Cor. 11:1: "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ."

The religious person, who is a sinner is preoccupied with his holy life.

The religious person, who is a sinner is preoccupied with his victory over sin.

The religious person, who is a sinner is preoccupied with his righteousness.

The religious person, who is a sinner is preoccupied with his death to sin.

The religious person, who is a sinner is preoccupied with his piety.

I don't know any Christians of any groups who are preoccupied with themselves as you suggest.

 

[Robert Pate]

Amen. It is a preoccupation....right?



That seems ok since the Holy Spirit, through Paul, tells us to do that in 1 Cor. 11:1: "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ."



I don't know any Christians of any groups who are preoccupied with themselves as you suggest.

Religion is subjective because its about you, who is a sinner

Christianity is objective because it is about Christ, who is sinless.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Religion is subjective because its about you, who is a sinner

Christianity is objective because it is about Christ, who is sinless.

That makes no sense to me.

But ok for you.

 

[Robert Pate]

That makes no sense to me.

But ok for you.

It makes no sense to you because you don't know or understand the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You apparently believe that religion is what justifies the ungodly and reconciles us and the world unto God.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

It makes no sense to you because you don't know or understand the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You apparently believe that religion is what justifies the ungodly and reconciles us and the world unto God.

No. It makes no sense to me because you are not using the terms "subjective" and "objective" correctly.

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus Has Already Reconciled Us and the World to God No Religion Was Needed.

I agree that there is no need for religions but, Jesus has not reconciled us and the world to God. If he had done it, he would not have warned us all to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) That was Jesus' way to get us reconciled with HaShem. Isaiah's way was to set things right with HaShem so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow through repentance and return to the obedience of HaShem's Law. (Isaiah 1:18,19) Either way, the Law is the means to get reconciliation to HaShem. There is no other way.

 

[Robert Pate]

I agree that there is no need for religions but, Jesus has not reconciled us and the world to God. If he had done it, he would not have warned us all to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) That was Jesus' way to get us reconciled with HaShem. Isaiah's way was to set things right with HaShem so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow through repentance and return to the obedience of HaShem's Law. (Isaiah 1:18,19) Either way, the Law is the means to get reconciliation to HaShem. There is no other way.

You are trying to be justified by your Jewish religion that has been abolished, Hebrews 8:6-13.

The law does not justify. Your Jewish religion is a total failure.

 

[Nanja]

You are trying to be justified by your Jewish religion that has been abolished, Hebrews 8:6-13.

The law does not justify. Your Jewish religion is a total failure.

You are doing works of the flesh just as he is to get yourself saved!

Eph. 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Bright Raven]

You are doing works of the flesh just as he is to get yourself saved!

Eph. 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And what are Pate's works of the flesh?

 

[Nanja]

And what are Pate's works of the flesh?

Anything he does is a work of the flesh Rom. 8:7-8.