Jesus Has ALREADY Reconciled Us and the World to God. No Religion Was Needed

[beloved57]

The Word of God refutes you.

Yet, you persist in glorifying the freewill of man, the created thing, over the Absolute Supreme Will of God!

Give God the Glory!





Now how can an inhabitant of the earth be reputed as nothing, have a freewill that overrides the Will of God!


But to the Saints, the Will of God is revealed here:

Eph. 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Good scriptures Sis, but he doesnt believe a word of it lol !

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Spirit and truth is not a system of worship.

If you have to have a system to worship, then you are practicing religion.

Hey Robert,

Let's suppose you are correct. Could you answer two questions for me please?

1. How does one worship God in Spirit and in Truth? (What does that mean and what does that look like?)

2. If Christianity isn't a religion, then what is it?

Peace.

 

[Robert Pate]

Good scriptures Sis, but he doesnt believe a word of it lol !

You do not glorify God, nor do you honor his Son Jesus Christ.

You and B57 are the worst blasphemers that I have ever seen.

You accuse God of sending people to hell before they are born and then you claim that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the world. If the likes of you are going to be in heaven I don't want to be there.

 

[Robert Pate]

Hey Robert,

Let's suppose you are correct. Could you answer two questions for me please?

1. How does one worship God in Spirit and in Truth? (What does that mean and what does that look like?)

2. If Christianity isn't a religion, then what is it?

Peace.

I thought we already covered this.

To worship God in Spirit is to worship God in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In the Gospel we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Jesus is our righteousness and our substitute representative. All that Jesus is and all that he has done is ours by faith. We are justified by faith alone, because we are justified by Christ alone.

To worship God in truth is to confess that, "The good that I would do, I do not: but the evil which I would not that I do. Now if I do that that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me" Romans 7:19, 20.

 

[Nanja]

Good scriptures Sis, but he doesnt believe a word of it lol !

I know that's right, Brother. ☺

Pate doesn't acknowledge the True God, nor does he believe His Words.

He is of a different father John 8:44!


Yet I believe those scriptures are used of God for His Purpose to whomever is reading them.

2 Cor. 2:15-17
For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

I thought we already covered this.

Not that I am aware of. Maybe in another thread somewhere, perhaps?

To worship God in Spirit is to worship God in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
In the Gospel we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

I don't agree that that is what Jesus was talking about in John 4. I don't think that fits contextually.

We should be able to determine what Jesus meant by "in Spirit and in Truth" from the context of John 4.

Why leave John 4 to jump over to Colossians 2? Colossians 2 doesn't say anything about worshipping in "Spirit and in Truth".

Jesus is our righteousness and our substitute representative.

No argument. But that doesn't tell us what Jesus meant in John 4.

All that Jesus is and all that he has done is ours by faith.

Does the Bible say that somewhere? Just curious. It probably does...I just don't recall it.

We are justified by faith alone

Does the Bible say that somewhere? I haven't seen that yet. Are you sure you aren't adding in that word "alone"?

,

because we are justified by Christ alone.

To worship God in truth is to confess that, "The good that I would do, I do not: but the evil which I would not that I do. Now if I do that that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me" Romans 7:19, 20.

Your interpretation of what it means to worship "in Spirit and in Truth" doesn't even acknowledge the context of those very words.

I think there is a better interpretation than yours, with all due respect.

Two more questions please?

1. If Christianity isn't a religion...then what is it? (You still haven't told me).

2. Why won't you answer question number one above?

Peace.

 

[beloved57]

You do not glorify God, nor do you honor his Son Jesus Christ.

You and B57 are the worst blasphemers that I have ever seen.

You accuse God of sending people to hell before they are born and then you claim that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the world. If the likes of you are going to be in heaven I don't want to be there.

You dont believe in the Jesus Christ of the scripture, you teach that His death failed to save them He died for !

 

[beloved57]

I know that's right, Brother. ☺

Pate doesn't acknowledge the True God, nor does he believe His Words.

He is of a different father John 8:44!


Yet I believe those scriptures are used of God for His Purpose to whomever is reading them.

2 Cor. 2:15-17
For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

You are right, God is using your testimony of the Gospel to increase his guilt !

 

[beloved57]

You do not glorify God, nor do you honor his Son Jesus Christ.

You and B57 are the worst blasphemers that I have ever seen.

You accuse God of sending people to hell before they are born and then you claim that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the world. If the likes of you are going to be in heaven I don't want to be there.

You deny the saving cross of Christ, thats terrible blasphemy !

 

[Nanja]

You are right, God is using your testimony of the Gospel to increase his guilt !

Yep!

 

[Robert Pate]

Not that I am aware of. Maybe in another thread somewhere, perhaps?



I don't agree that that is what Jesus was talking about in John 4. I don't think that fits contextually.

We should be able to determine what Jesus meant by "in Spirit and in Truth" from the context of John 4.

Why leave John 4 to jump over to Colossians 2? Colossians 2 doesn't say anything about worshipping in "Spirit and in Truth".



No argument. But that doesn't tell us what Jesus meant in John 4.



Does the Bible say that somewhere? Just curious. It probably does...I just don't recall it.



Does the Bible say that somewhere? I haven't seen that yet. Are you sure you aren't adding in that word "alone"?

,

Your interpretation of what it means to worship "in Spirit and in Truth" doesn't even acknowledge the context of those very words.

I think there is a better interpretation than yours, with all due respect.

Two more questions please?

1. If Christianity isn't a religion...then what is it? (You still haven't told me).

2. Why won't you answer question number one above?

Peace.

You apparently want to believe that Christianity is a religion because you are religious.

In religion you are justified by works. In Christianity we are justified by faith without works.

Please tell me what good thing that you a sinner can do to please a holy God?

 

[beloved57]

You apparently want to believe that Christianity is a religion because you are religious.

In religion you are justified by works. In Christianity we are justified by faith without works.

Please tell me what good thing that you a sinner can do to please a holy God?

Look whose talking?You teach that men are saved by the works and will of men!

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

You apparently want to believe that Christianity is a religion because you are religious.

I want to believe the Truth. If Christianity is a religion, I want to believe that.

If Christianity is not a religion, I want to believe that.

So please tell me...if Christianity is not a religion....then what is it?

In religion you are justified by works.

Maybe. Maybe not. This definition comes from where exactly? A verse in the Bible? A dictionary? Where?

I would like to know where that idea comes from so I can determine if the source is reliable, believable, and trustworthy.

In Christianity we are justified by faith without works.

Hmmmm.... Does the Bible say that somewhere? I don't remember where that is stated. Can you show me a verse please?

I'd like to compare the verse that says:

"We are justified by faith without works." with:

"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." (James 2:24)

Please tell me what good thing that you a sinner can do to please a holy God?

Seriously? You expect me to answer questions that you put forth to me....even though you repeatedly ignore questions that I put forth to you??

So not fair, Robert.

But in the Spirit of gentlemanly conversation I will answer your question...and then I will expect a straightforward answer to mine.

You ask:

Please tell me what good thing that you a sinner can do to please a holy God?

I can do good and share.

The Holy Spirit says so in Hebrews 13:16:

"But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased." (NKJV)

Ok. Your turn.

If Christianity isn't a religion...then what is it?

Peace.

 

[Robert Pate]

I want to believe the Truth. If Christianity is a religion, I want to believe that.

If Christianity is not a religion, I want to believe that.

So please tell me...if Christianity is not a religion....then what is it?



Maybe. Maybe not. This definition comes from where exactly? A verse in the Bible? A dictionary? Where?

I would like to know where that idea comes from so I can determine if the source is reliable, believable, and trustworthy.



Hmmmm.... Does the Bible say that somewhere? I don't remember where that is stated. Can you show me a verse please?

I'd like to compare the verse that says:

"We are justified by faith without works." with:

"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." (James 2:24)



Seriously? You expect me to answer questions that you put forth to me....even though you repeatedly ignore questions that I put forth to you??

So not fair, Robert.

But in the Spirit of gentlemanly conversation I will answer your question...and then I will expect a straightforward answer to mine.

You ask:

I can do good and share.

The Holy Spirit says so in Hebrews 13:16:

"But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased." (NKJV)

Ok. Your turn.

If Christianity isn't a religion...then what is it?

Peace.

Here is a good anti-religion scripture.

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5

You will not find a Catholic or a religious person that believes this because it teaches "faith alone."

Here is another one.

"For if Abraham was justified by works (religion) he has something to glory about; but not before God" Romans 4:2.

Works are religion. Religion is about you and your works. Christianity is about Jesus Christ and his work of redemption that was done on our behalf.

 

[beloved57]

Here is a good anti-religion scripture.

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5

You will not find a Catholic or a religious person that believes this because it teaches "faith alone."

Here is another one.

"For if Abraham was justified by works (religion) he has something to glory about; but not before God" Romans 4:2.

Works are religion. Religion is about you and your works. Christianity is about Jesus Christ and his work of redemption that was done on our behalf.

You dont believe those scriptures! How could you? You teach that man is justified by the works of the law !

 

[Robert Pate]

You dont believe those scriptures! How could you? You teach that man is justified by the works of the law !

That post was not directed to you. Please do not butt in.

 

[beloved57]

That post was not directed to you. Please do not butt in.

This is a public forum !

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Here is a good anti-religion scripture.

(Sigh)...Robert, the question to you was "If Christianity isn't a religion then what is it?"

Your response of "Here is a good anti-religion scripture..." doesn't answer the question. It ignores it.

I am going to have to conclude that you won't answer my question because you can't.

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5

You will not find a Catholic or a religious person that believes this because it teaches "faith alone."

Wrong. Your ignorance of others' faith is showing again. The Catechism of the Catholic Church on page 885 says "Justification: The gracious action of God which frees us from sin and communicates 'the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ' (Romans 3:22)."

Here is another one.

"For if Abraham was justified by works (religion) he has something to glory about; but not before God" Romans 4:2.

The word "religion" which you are inserting into the text isn't in the bible at that point. Why are you adding words to the biblical text?

How would you harmonize Romans 4:2 with James 2:21:

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?"

Works are religion. Religion is about you and your works.

Like Matthew 25:31-45, for example? Are those not works?

Christianity is about Jesus Christ and his work of redemption that was done on our behalf.

Amen. But that still doesn't tell me what Christianity is....it tells me what Christianity is about.

AND, according to the Holy Spirit, good works are a part of Christianity:

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10 NKJV)

Do you deny that we are created FOR GOOD WORKS and that God wants us to WALK IN THEM?

 

[Robert Pate]

(Sigh)...Robert, the question to you was "If Christianity isn't a religion then what is it?"

Your response of "Here is a good anti-religion scripture..." doesn't answer the question. It ignores it.

I am going to have to conclude that you won't answer my question because you can't.



Wrong. Your ignorance of others' faith is showing again. The Catechism of the Catholic Church on page 885 says "Justification: The gracious action of God which frees us from sin and communicates 'the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ' (Romans 3:22)."



The word "religion" which you are inserting into the text isn't in the bible at that point. Why are you adding words to the biblical text?

How would you harmonize Romans 4:2 with James 2:21:

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?"



Like Matthew 25:31-45, for example? Are those not works?



Amen. But that still doesn't tell me what Christianity is....it tells me what Christianity is about.

AND, according to the Holy Spirit, good works are a part of Christianity:

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10 NKJV)

Do you deny that we are created FOR GOOD WORKS and that God wants us to WALK IN THEM?

No, we are created for the glory of God. God's purpose for the Christian is that he will become a witness for Christ and his Gospel.

James was one of the first books of the Bible. James had not yet learned the Gospel from Paul. He believed like you do that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:21. He was religious.

All who believe the Gospel are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit working in the life of the believer that will produce the Christian life and good works. It is all of God.

RELIGION: Man's preoccupation with his own spirituality.

CHRISTIANITY: Man's preoccupation with Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

No, we are created for the glory of God. God's purpose for the Christian is that he will become a witness for Christ and his Gospel.

Good. Then we agree that good works are a part of being a Christian. Even though earlier you said "Works are religion. Religion is about you and your works."

James was one of the first books of the Bible. James had not yet learned the Gospel from Paul.

You don't know that. You are making stuff up. I don't deny that James was written early but Paul's conversion by most biblical scholars happened in about 33-36 A.D. before any New Testament book was written. Even the book of James is dated to about a decade after that.

He believed like you do that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:21.

OMG. Where did I say that we must keep the law of Moses? Not only are you wrong about that (pretending to know what I believe).....how in the world can you say that that is what James believed almost 2,000 years ago? That isn't what he was saying.

Geez, read verse 20 at least and get some context. He is saying they should avoid idolatry and sexual immorality, etc. That isn't a bad thing. That is a good thing. And everyone (including Paul) agree with him because Paul went: "... through the cities, they delivered to them the decrees to keep, which were determined by the apostles and elders at Jerusalem." (Acts 16:4)

So whatever you want to use Acts 15:21 to show about James...well, it also applies to Paul. Acts 16:4 shows this.

He was religious.

Then so was Paul.

All who believe the Gospel are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit working in the life of the believer that will produce the Christian life and good works. It is all of God.

Good! Then we agree! Good works are a part of Christianity. Of course it is the Spirit working in the life of the believer (praise God!). But Christians are not puppets. The Spirit cannot use a believer to do good works unless the believer cooperates with the Spirit. He doesn't override our free will.

RELIGION: Man's preoccupation with his own spirituality.

If that is your definition, like I've said before, I see no Christians that fit that description. Not Calvinists, not Catholics, not Lutherans, not Methodists, not Presbyterians, not non-denom's, not anybody.

I find those Christians to be preoccupied with knowing, loving, and serving Jesus Christ and His Father. I don't think I've ever met a Christian who is preoccupied with themselves.

CHRISTIANITY: Man's preoccupation with Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

So Christianity is a preoccupation?

Ok. That's not bad. To be preoccupied with Christ and His Gospel can be good.

Especially if it is in the sense of wanting to know, love, and serve Him like Calvinists, Catholics, Lutherans, and all the rest do.

It's kindof a narrow definition, though. People can be preoccupied with Christ and His Gospel in the sense that they constantly work to prove He wasn't God or didn't exist or wasn't special or miracles can't happen, or He didn't raise from the dead, etc.

So I don't think a "preoccupation" with Christ is the best definition of Christianity.