Jesus died on cross and rose in three days ?
- Thread starter Bee1
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Bee1
New member
Touche` Now the question at hand. What day did Jesus die, please.Perhaps, I know less than I'm letting on?
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The actual day in the history of the world? Example: The 22nd of September?
Bee1
New member
I will accept one of the seven days of the week.
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keypurr
Well-known member
I agree with you friend. That week had two Sabbaths.
You seemed to be rejecting the whole idea based on the fact that there aren't three days between Friday and Sunday. I was simply saying that while it is true that there aren't three whole days between Friday and Sunday, a dogmatic rejection on that basis isn't warranted because it is true that the Jewish idiomatic way of dealing with days would cause Sunday to be considered the third day that Jesus was in the grave. I'm not saying that I agree with that as an affirmative argument, I'm just saying that it's not an entirely invalid thing to say and that your dogmatic rejection on that basis is an over reach.
As for what day Jesus died, I don't really think it mostly an academic matter. It matters to those who are interested in getting every detail right, which isn't unimportant, but it certainly nothing to go to war over as some here seem to think. I think that a death on Wednesday evening (before Sunset) and a resurrection late in the day on Saturday (before Sunset) timing makes some intuitive sense and without having done a lot of my own research, it is the theory I currently prefer but there are good arguments for a the Friday/Sunday position and it must be accepted as a valid theory by any honest mind.
One of the very best arguments I've seen for the Friday/Sunday position I've seen is presented here...
http://biblelight.net/pasover.htm
It's a compelling argument that I, given my current level of familiarity with the subject matter, couldn't refute if I tried! The main reason it doesn't persuade me is that I can't get passed Jesus Himself saying "Three days and three nights", which the argument linked to above doesn't really deal with except to say that He didn't mean what He said.
Conversely, one BIG problem that a Wednesday/Saturday theory has is that it would mean that the crucifixion would have had to occur in 34AD. That isn't a date that anyone accepts as valid that I've ever seen (I haven't seen everything).
http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/passover_dates.htm
Clete
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Bee1
New member
That was like pulling teeth. I never heard (shows how much I know) the argument for Wednesday but it makes sense. So this seems to be the much more probably date amongst those that know? Did Jesus say he will arise in three days?
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LOL
The correct day is the first day of the week, Sunday. That comes to us from scripture and early Christian writings. Scripture and early Christian writings clearly state that believers gathered on the first day of the week for prayers and the breaking of the bread (Mass).
Getting too technical beyond that is Pharisaical. Jesus stressed the spirit of the Law not the letter of the law. Don't strain at a gnat, for you might swallow a camel.
Besides, Pope Saint Gregory XIII changed the calendar anyways so nobody really knows what day anything really is anyway!!
Quote: "The Gregorian Calendar, also known as the Western or Christian Calendar, is the most widely used calendar in the world today. Its predecessor, the Julian Calendar, was replaced because it did not properly reflect the actual time it takes the Earth to circle once around the Sun, known as a tropical year. The reason the Julian Calendar had to be replaced was the formula it used to calculate leap years. The Julian formula produced a leap year every four years, which is too many. The Gregorian Calendar uses a much more accurate rule for calculating leap years. To get the calendar back in sync with astronomical events like the vernal equinox or the winter solstice, a number of days were dropped. The papal bull issued by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582, decreed that 10 days be dropped when switching to the Gregorian Calendar. However, the later the switch occurred, the more days had to be omitted. (See table: LINK). This created short months with only 18 days and odd dates like February 30 during the year of the changeover. In North America, the month of September 1752 was exceptionally short, skipping 11 days. The Gregorian Calendar was first introduced in 1582 in some European countries (*). However, many countries used the Julian Calendar much longer. Turkey was the last country to officially switch to the new system on January 1, 1927.
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I know that you know better than this. Father Linsinbigler explained it in great detail in the other forum:
Friday night to Sunday morning is three days BY JEWISH RECKONING! Maybe not by our modern reckoning, but by theirs it was three days.
"Remember that we have to look at how the early Christians thought about these things. They were taught directly by the Apostles and handed down the very Scriptures we have today. Day and night had very specific applications in Scripture......"
http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/bible-chat/7880-third-day-after-three-days.html
Quote: On another thread, a related subject to this was brought up. However, since the topic was narrowed to discussions of whether the 6th day was legitimate or not, and since was only focused on 3day/night passages. I decided not to derail and to start another thread.
So the question is, how can Christ have risen on the third day, after three days, and once three days and nights have passed? Was Christ contradicting himself? No, but Christ was speaking in such a manner that not everyone could understand him, but that biblically both statements were true at the same time.
Remember that we have to look at how the early Christians thought about these things. They were taught directly by the Apostles and handed down the very Scriptures we have today. The early Church Fathers, the early liturgical sources, and Scripture itself answers this question.
Remember that Scripture clearly defines the first definitions of day and night. "The light he called day, and the darkness he called night." This was before sun and starts. Scripture is clear that there was darkness over all the earth (land) from noon to 3pm. St. Mark states that Christ was crucified at the 3rd hour of the day (9am). That means, for 3 hours light (day 9am-noon), or 3 hours darkness (night noon-3pm), for another three hours day again (3pm-sundown), then night (sundown to sunrise), then day again (sunrise to dark on Saturday), then night again.
This gives us three days and three nights.
"Heart of the earth" could mean the grave in general, but it also was a name for Golgatha (the place of the skull of Adam), namely, Jerusalem outside the walls. Jerusalem itself was known as the "heart of the world" and "heart of the land (earth)." Christ was crucified on mount calvary and buried right beneath it, the area collectively called Golgatha.
I really am not interested in debating with anyone. It took me several decades to research all of this and if you are opposed to it, then peace be with you.
OMG, you're kidding right? You cannot be THAT ignorant of world history.
Read >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar
keypurr
Well-known member
One who stands on thin ice should not try to degrade others.
It is the Jews that have the correct day of worship to please the father. The RCC influenced the state to change the day of worship to the pagan day of the Sun God in the fourth century.
Then shut your piehole.
keypurr
Well-known member
There is no place in the scriptures to worship on the first day of the week. The day was changed by the RCC and the Roman State to appease the pagans.
keypurr
Well-known member
I would bet that you learned that in your evil church.
Good grief!
Acts 20:7 (New Living Translation)
On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord's Supper. Paul was preaching to them, and since he was leaving the next day, he kept talking until midnight
Acts 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
LOLLLLLL!!! I have a bridge ion New York to sell you.
From the First Century AD, before that was even possible, the following was written by Justyn Martyr, born in 100AD, and it describes today's mass perfectly:
On the day we call the day of the sun (ie first day of the week) all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place.
The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.
When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.
Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.
When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.
Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.
He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.
When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.'
When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.
- St. Justin, Apol. 1, 65-67
G 6,428-429; the text before the asterisk (*) is from chap. 67
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CatholicCrusader,
re: "OMG, you're kidding right? You cannot be THAT ignorant of world history. Read >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar "
Your link is referring to dates and not days of the week.
In fact it says:
"When the new calendar was put in use, the error accumulated in the 13 centuries since the Council of Nicaea was corrected by a deletion of 10 days. The Julian calendar day Thursday, 4 October 1582 was followed by the first day of the Gregorian calendar, Friday, 15 October 1582 (the cycle of weekdays was not affected)."
So I ask you again, do you have any proof that the seven day cycle has been interrupted at any time since the first century?
re: "OMG, you're kidding right? You cannot be THAT ignorant of world history. Read >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar "
Your link is referring to dates and not days of the week.
In fact it says:
"When the new calendar was put in use, the error accumulated in the 13 centuries since the Council of Nicaea was corrected by a deletion of 10 days. The Julian calendar day Thursday, 4 October 1582 was followed by the first day of the Gregorian calendar, Friday, 15 October 1582 (the cycle of weekdays was not affected)."
So I ask you again, do you have any proof that the seven day cycle has been interrupted at any time since the first century?
Nevermind. I really don't have the energy to explain what was right there in front of you