Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

[SabathMoon]

Simple enough.

The NT writers applied the LXX style, as translated from Exo 3.14, and applied it to Jesus - thus confirming His deity.

So let me get this straight. You think the name YHWH means he-is. Of which it doesn't.

 

[Apple7]

So let me get this straight. You think the name YHWH means he-is. Of which it doesn't.

We are not discussing the Tetragrammaton, however, here is the lexical definition...

יְהוָה = “Yahweh”

“Yahweh” definition:

H3068 Singular noun. The Tetragrammaton YHWH, the Lord, or Yahweh, the personal name of God and His most frequent designation in scripture, occurring 5321x. The word refers to the proper name of the God of Israel, particularly the name by which He revealed Himself to Moses (Ex: 6.2-3). It comes from the root “hawa” H1961, which means either existence, or development; “to be”. “The existing one”.

H1961 “hawa” A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

H1933 “havah” A primitive root supposed to mean properly to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence): - be, X have.


References:
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume three, pp. 1067 - 1081
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #484a, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 210 – 212
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 426

 

[Dartman]

here "I AM" is used as a name

question:
Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?"

answer:
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

So close!! You stopped exactly 1 verse too soon;

Ex 3:15-16
5 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, hath appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and (seen) that which is done to you in Egypt:

Notice ..... NO WHERE does Jehovah state that "I am" is a NAME.

No,
that is not in the bible and that is what we are using here , no cult bibles like nwt.
your additions are only in your made up bible.

Are you unfamiliar with the Septuagint???

 

[glorydaz]

If their understanding was right, then Jesus lied when He corrected them.
In fact, if Jesus is God Himself, then Jesus spent most of His time on earth lying to everyone.

No, He didn't lie. You just misunderstood him. The Jews didn't.

 

[glorydaz]

You are Wrong, and, so were the Jews that murdered Jesus.
It never ceases to amaze me, how DESPERATE onetarians are! To cling to the accusations of murderers, rather than what Jesus actually said is insane.

Notice you NEVER find any of the disciples stating that Jesus was making himself God. Here is what THEY said;
Matt 16:15-17 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 6:67-69 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Spoiler

And, I know ..... about now you will trot out the tired, mutated interpretation of John 20:28 ..... and try to turn Thomas' exultation of both his Lord, who had been raised from the dead, and his God who DID the raising ..... into something utterly contradictory to the rest of Scripture.

How truly desperate ..... and sad.

I'll ignore your childish, "How truly desperate....and sad" comment....knowing your ignorance has gotten the better of you.



The fact is that the Jews were expecting God to come in the flesh...as a mighty Conquer ....it was Christ's humanity (the lowly servant) they saw that turned them off. How dare this lowly Nazarene claim to be the Son of God ...the Messiah....Emmanuel (God with us). They read Isaiah and were expecting "OUR GOD".

Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Isaiah 40:3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.​

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 7djengo7 and Apple7,

In John 10:30-36 KJV, Jesus says nothing, whatsoever, that implies, nor even remotely resembles "HENCE, I am NOT God" or "HENCE, I am not YAHWEH." Yet, you pretend to think that He does. So, feel free to try to explain why, exactly, you say that He does.

Perhaps one day you will see the difference between the titles God and The Son of God. I suggest again that you give some personal consideration of Jesus’ answer in John 10:30-36 to their false accusation. There was possibly many groups in the crowd, the Pharisees, the Scribes, a few of the Sanhedrin, possibly Nicodemus, a few looking to collect stones, a few jeering, the disciples and others. We need to choose how we respond to the words that Jesus spoke here. I will not be the expositor for you on this occasion, but recommend you reconsider your alignment with their wrong assessment and accusation.

And yet...just a chapter prior, John 9.35 - 38, Jesus declares that He is The Son, and He is immediately worshiped as God!

Philippians 2:10-11.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[chair]

The Hebrew of Exo 3.14 has Yahweh saying ‘I AM’ (ehyeh) three separate times.

The Greek translators did NOT translate the second and third ‘ehyeh’ with the same words used to translate the first ‘I AM’.

‘Egw eimi’ translates the first ‘I AM’ (ehyeh), in the LXX, while ‘ho wn’ is used to translate the second and third instances of ‘I AM’, in the LXX.

So, as you can easily verify, THREE separate 'I AM' statements are made in BOTH Hebrew and the LXX.

But, you can't be bothered with the study of the original languages...

Do you know Biblical Hebrew?

 

[Aimiel]

One of my favorite verses of Scripture points out Who Jesus is the best. The Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus and encountered The Holy Ghost...

And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

He proves that He is God and there can be no explaining away, because we're not told that there is a 'spirit of son' in Scripture. It's The Holy Spirit of God, Who is Christ.

 

[clefty]

One of my favorite verses of Scripture points out Who Jesus is the best. The Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus and encountered The Holy Ghost...

And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

He proves that He is God and there can be no explaining away, because we're not told that there is a 'spirit of son' in Scripture. It's The Holy Spirit of God, Who is Christ.

Both times Paul recounted this event at his trials...Luke wished to make it clear that Paul’s answer was in Hebrew/Aramaic...

Thus the name Paul heard was not “Jesus” or Iesous...or some other racist anti semitic colonizing priveledged white man language...LOL

A conspiracy so grand it wished to erase the jewishness of our Savior...why we might still be crowding the synagogues on the Sabbath...LOL

Silly goyim...Sabbath...a day off...ain’t for them...

Or torah protections from usury or debt forgiveness...goyim remain strangers...

That wall between jew and goyim remains...right?

That vision Peter had was about being able to eat bacon...not entering Israel as full citizens...co-heirs to the Promise...

 

[Dartman]

I'll ignore your childish, "How truly desperate....and sad" comment....knowing your ignorance has gotten the better of you.

LOL .... no you won't! Your retort proves you incorrect.

The fact is that the Jews were expecting God to come in the flesh...as a mighty Conquer ....it was Christ's humanity (the lowly servant) they saw that turned them off. How dare this lowly Nazarene claim to be the Son of God ...the Messiah....Emmanuel (God with us).

Exactly. Jesus was not the conquering King they craved, but he WAS proof that his God was on their side, that God was not against them.

They read Isaiah and were expecting "OUR GOD".

No they didn't. They were expecting the King that God had promised.

IF they were expecting "our God" ..... then why did they try to kill him, accusing him of "making himself equal with God"???

Your story is self contradicting.

Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Isaiah 40:3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.​

Jesus served the his God. John was doing Jehovah, God's work, preparing Israel for God's prophet.

 

[Dartman]

One of my favorite verses of Scripture points out Who Jesus is the best. The Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus and encountered The Holy Ghost...

And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Very good ..... so far.

He proves that He is God

Nope, it proves Jesus is Lord.

 

[Dartman]

neither verse states or implies your premise "each believer has glory before the world existed "

Rom 8:29-30 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son,that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

1 Cor 2:7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

You are attempting to overcome your error with bluster...... Much like the Black Knight in the Monty Python movie.

I did not insert it into the text but it was in my description of the text

Ok, then you agree "again" is NOT in the text... you made it up.

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Jesus says he had glory before the creation of the world

Yes, he DID .... and so do ALL the believers, as the Scriptures above prove.

 

[glorydaz]

LOL .... no you won't! Your retort proves you incorrect.

Your LOL proves you're a fool.

Exactly. Jesus was not the conquering King they craved, but he WAS proof that his God was on their side, that God was not against them.

That must be why God set Israel aside and turned to the Gentiles.

Romans 11:10-11 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.​

IF they were expecting "our God" ..... then why did they try to kill him, accusing him of "making himself equal with God"???

I told you already. You need to pay attention. They were expecting OUR GOD to come as Lord and KING...not as a humble servant.

Your story is self contradicting.

You can't handle the truth...just admit it.

Jesus served the his God. John was doing Jehovah, God's work, preparing Israel for God's prophet.

You just doubled down on stupid. :thumb:

 

[glorydaz]

One of my favorite verses of Scripture points out Who Jesus is the best. The Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus and encountered The Holy Ghost...

And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

He proves that He is God and there can be no explaining away, because we're not told that there is a 'spirit of son' in Scripture. It's The Holy Spirit of God, Who is Christ.

Are you saying the Risen Lord is the Holy Spirit?

 

[Dartman]

Your LOL proves you're a fool.

Matt 5:22 .... and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

That must be why God set Israel aside and turned to the Gentiles.

Romans 11:10-11 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.​

God didn't turn from the Jews that accepted His son, He turned aside from the Jews that accused His son of claiming to be God.

... (rubbish deleted) ...

 

[God's Truth]

and by that you mean we DON’T have to keep His commandments...DON’T have to follow Him His way becoming more like He was or living as He did...

Cuz when I observe Him I observe Him instructing us Matt 23:2 “The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach...”

There are no more scribes and Pharisees, and there is no more temple building.
The temple was destroyed and no one can or is supposed to obey the old law anymore.

sure...those that did wanted to...those that didnt want to didnt and fell into doing something else...unbelieving otherwise first...

Goyim were with them the whole time as the Sabbath commandment is the only one that includes them...the irony...

Why do you keep saying ‘goyim’? It’s like the only Jewish word you use.

ONE LAW for native and goyim alike...goyim crowded synagogues to hear of One resurrected...begged for more the next Sabbath and then almost the whole city showed up...on Sabbath

circumcision NEVER saved...as how can something done TO you by others save you without your consent? Is why we don’t baptise infants even...

The Jews had to obey the law or they would be cut off from God.
As for Moses, he had to circumcise his son or what would happen?
Why did you avoid that question?

you ever sell a house car or shoes? You change owners not the thing sold...the transfer of the Law to another administration happens all the time as it did when He became its Final High Priest to ministrate it...

Jesus came and gave a new testament, a new covenant.

yup even pray you wont break the Sabbath fleeing future persecutions...or have to flee in the winter...He obviously expected winters and Sabbaths to continue...

The gates were closed on the Sabbath and the Jews would have a hard time fleeing.

Nehemiah 13: 19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.

Those ordinances WERE the law.
without law there is not debt...you just destroyed the reason you need a Savior...destroy the Law...destroy your need of salvation...

That is just beyond ignorant. Jesus reconciles us to God and he had to come and die for us.
Jesus gave us new guidelines to obey.

Those ordinance were hand written NOT by the finger of Yah...His Law was...By His own Finger

LOL you are really twisted and tortured over this...you dont just have faith in the law you DO IT...and live...not just faith but actually live...the man who does shall live by them...we are redeemed from its curse thus live...we are NOT redeemed from THE LAW...is why Judgement Day remains...and Paul is clear we ESTABISH LAW...the the law we establish represents the One we serve

The law was not based on faith that is what God says.
The people had to clean themselves by doing the purification/ceremonial works of the law. Now we do not clean ourselves because Jesus does it, just by our faith that he does, after we repent of our sins and call on him.

NOPE...once justified is what His people WANT TO DO...no bitterness as they are IN LOVE...

The bitter root is about people saying we have to do the old law.

Yup...IN LOVE with Him is to realize what He did for you...and thus love His teachings and want to obey...is why His yoke is easy and His burden is light...no bitterness

Your bitterness is when you put a day up there with Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath Rest, and a day is just a day.

 

[God's Truth]

ummm wow so two persons in the same space...maybe one is on the other’s bosom?

All humans have their own spirit. Jesus’ spirit happens to be the Spirit of God.

In the 10 what changed? NOTHING

We have commands from Jesus, and he does not tell us we have to do the old rules for the Sabbath. Do you really do the old rules for the Sabbath? Have you lifted anything on a Sabbath?
Jesus’ new rule concerning the Sabbath is for us not to do wrong but to do good.

A NO WORK rule was in place for the old rules for the Sabbath day. Faith and NO WORKS save us; Jesus says it is UNLAWFUL to do evil on the NO WORK day of the Sabbath, and Jesus said it was LAWFUL to do good on the NO WORK day of the Sabbath, see Luke 6:9.

 

[God's Truth]

Wait wut? Earthy things dont matter anymore?

You are playing games with what I said.
It is a temple made by hands that doesn't matter anymore.

 

[God's Truth]

"I am" is never a name.

And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye
say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. LXX

And Jesus is that Being.

 

[God's Truth]

Dartman has taken one too many darts to the head...

He doesn't like the screen name I use, but he thinks we should like Dartman.

King James Bible
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.