JESUS: "Behold, I Stand At The Door And Knock" Rev. 3:20.

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Really?

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

In Romans 8:15 the word adoption is the Greek uihothesia.

G5206
υἱοθεσία
uihothesia
hwee-oth-es-ee'-ah
From a presumed compound of G5207 and a derivative of G5087

G5207
υἱός huiós, hwee-os'; apparently a primary word; a "son" (sometimes of animals), used very widely of immediate, remote or figuratively, kinship:—child, foal, son.

G5087
τίθημι títhēmi, tith'-ay-mee; a prolonged form of a primary θέω théō theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly, in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate):—+ advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give

5207 son + 5087 conceive
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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The main theological question is what is the door that Jesus is knocking on?

If you are a Calvinist you will probably dismiss this scripture completely because it implies that man has a free will. They believe that the God of Calvinism is far greater than the God of the scriptures
A Calvinist and anyone else who actually studies and applies the proper interpretative methods will not misuse this Scripture as you are doing now.

It is quite a stretch to take a verse from a letter written to a specific church whose conduct needed correcting, and to apply it to all sinners everywhere (outside of the church) that the "decision's up to them". Then again, Robert, you have never been one to actually stay within some reasonable bounds.

Compare this with John's gospel (the same author) when Our Lord goes in to dine with people. It is speaking of Christ's desire for a deeper relationship with people in His Church, not salvation.

Though frequently used in evangelism, this appeal is not addressed to outsiders but to church members. It is an exhortation to the latter to rouse themselves from apathy and lukewarmness and to open their lives unreservedly to Christ so that the pre-eminence may be his alone. Christ is addressing the church.

Having said that, thankfully God does use His word to save people even if we mistakenly misinterpret the scriptures.

If you want to misuse the verse evangelically, at least interpret it in the same vein. Notice that the Lord, as it were, is pressing against the door that it may be opened. He not only knocks again and again but He also calls the sinner. It is not the person who is inside who takes the initiative. The text is in complete harmony with the entire Bible in its teaching concerning sovereign grace. It is the Lord who is standing at, or rather, against, the door. No one has called Him. It is He who is knocking, not once but again and again. It is He who is calling, and this voice of the Lord in the gospel as applied to the heart by the Spirit is the power of God unto salvation. In this way we find that this passage does full justice both to divine, sovereign grace and to human responsibility.

AMR
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
A Calvinist and anyone else who actually studies and applies the proper interpretative methods will not misuse this Scripture as you are doing now.

It is quite a stretch to take a verse from a letter written to a specific church whose conduct needed correcting, and to apply it to all sinners everywhere (outside of the church) that the "decision's up to them". Then again, Robert, you have never been one to actually stay within some reasonable bounds.

Compare this with John's gospel (the same author) when Our Lord goes in to dine with people. It is speaking of Christ's desire for a deeper relationship with people in His Church, not salvation.

Though frequently used in evangelism, this appeal is not addressed to outsiders but to church members. It is an exhortation to the latter to rouse themselves from apathy and lukewarmness and to open their lives unreservedly to Christ so that the pre-eminence may be his alone. Christ is addressing the church.

Having said that, thankfully God does use His word to save people even if we mistakenly misinterpret the scriptures.

If you want to misuse the verse evangelically, at least interpret it in the same vein. Notice that the Lord, as it were, is pressing against the door that it may be opened. He not only knocks again and again but He also calls the sinner. It is not the person who is inside who takes the initiative. The text is in complete harmony with the entire Bible in its teaching concerning sovereign grace. It is the Lord who is standing at, or rather, against, the door. No one has called Him. It is He who is knocking, not once but again and again. It is He who is calling, and this voice of the Lord in the gospel as applied to the heart by the Spirit is the power of God unto salvation. In this way we find that this passage does full justice both to divine, sovereign grace and to human responsibility.

AMR


It is no surprise that you did not like the article or the scripture. Anyone that names themselves Mr. Religion is not going to like much of anything that I write, seeing that I am anti-religion and pro Gospel. All scripture is for us, but not all scripture is to us. Revelation 3:20 is both for us and to us. It was written to the church in Laodicea which was composed of believers and unbelievers, Revelation 3:16. Within any body of believers there are unbelievers. There is no such thing as a church with 100% believers. Paul also knew this when he wrote his epistles.

The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. Some hear and believe while others hear but do not believe, Hebrews 4:2. To believe that God only makes it possible for some to believe and for others not to believe is a damnable heresy that will most likely lead to your destruction.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Actually [MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION] posted them, I copy/pasted from post #50, but jamie says there's NO CONCEPT of adoption in all of the NT.

Jamie has no concept of a lot of things, but she's trying. I wish she'd put aside her greek texts, and read what is plainly written. There are times when a person can outsmart themselves while they're still seeking.
 

Robert Pate

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Banned
How do you reconcile your position with Paul's assertion that not everyone is being called at this time?

Christ's group is a little flock.


Everyone is called to come to Christ and be saved. God is just, merciful and righteous in all of his dealings with fallen man. You are implying that he is not. Paul never said such a thing.
 

Robert Pate

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Banned
"For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called." (1 Corinthians 1:26)


What Paul is saying is that the wealthy, the noble, the prominent, cannot come to Christ because of pride. If they are not called it would have to be because God already knows that they will not respond. No response is a response.
 

jamie

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What Paul is saying is that the wealthy, the noble, the prominent, cannot come to Christ because of pride. If they are not called it would have to be because God already knows that they will not respond. No response is a response.

"But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence." (1 Corinthians 1:27-29)
 

jamie

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jamie says there's NO CONCEPT of adoption in all of the NT.

Ancient Israel was adopted by the Father. (Exodus 4:22)

Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)

We must be born of the Spirit, not adopted by the Spirit.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
"But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence." (1 Corinthians 1:27-29)


You will not find many of the rich and famous accepting Christ as their savior. They don't need him. It was the whores, thieves and tax collectors that believed upon him.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The main theological question is what is the door that Jesus is knocking on?

If you are a Calvinist you will probably dismiss this scripture completely because it implies that man has a free will. They believe that the God of Calvinism is far greater than the God of the scriptures.

What is the door that Jesus is knocking at? It is the door of our intellect. Isaiah also said, "come let us reason together though your sins be as scarlet they can be as white as wool" Isaiah 1:18. I have heard it taught that Jesus wants us to open the door of our heart so that he can come in and make us pleasing to God. This is Catholic Romanism and is not according to the Bible.

Jesus is knocking at the door of our intellect, and of course you have the power to open the door, if God didn't give you a free will to open the door Jesus would not be knocking. Some will say that Jesus is only knocking on the door of the elect. If that were true, which it is not. Then Jesus is unjust. An unjust Jesus Can't save anyone.

The Holy Spirit is in the world and is knocking on every ones door. Some hear the knock and walk away because they love their sins more than they love Jesus. Some hear the knock and jamb a chair under the door knob so that it can never be opened. Others hear the knock and open the door and invite Jesus to come into their lives, their intellect and their heart.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the Sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" John 1:12.

To receive Jesus is to receive his Gospel. If you do not receive his Gospel you have not received Jesus as your savior. In the Gospel Jesus comes into the world as our new Adam and representative. His mission is to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves because we are sinners. By his holy sinless life he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law, Matthew 5:18.

That was not enough, something had to be done about our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we now stand as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Not only have we been reconciled unto God, the whole world has been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. To believe and to embrace Jesus Christ as your only means of salvation is to open the door that Jesus is knocking on and receive him as your savior.

You dont even believe Jesus Blood saves them it was shed for, which is unbelief !
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
How do you reconcile your position with Paul's assertion that not everyone is being called at this time?

Christ's group is a little flock.

"For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called." (1 Corinthians 1:26)

You see your error, I hope. You changed what Paul said to support your own understanding.

Note how Paul says, "You see your calling..." He is inviting the members to look around and see all the poor, the humble, and the weak....not many rich and powerful heed the Gospel call.

This gets back to the truth of reconciliation. All are reconciled to God by the Cross, but each must then "be reconciled". And it's usually money, power, and pride that keeps people from being reconciled.

2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
In Romans 8:15 the word adoption is the Greek uihothesia.

G5206
υἱοθεσία
uihothesia
hwee-oth-es-ee'-ah
From a presumed compound of G5207 and a derivative of G5087

G5207
υἱός huiós, hwee-os'; apparently a primary word; a "son" (sometimes of animals), used very widely of immediate, remote or figuratively, kinship:—child, foal, son.

G5087
τίθημι títhēmi, tith'-ay-mee; a prolonged form of a primary θέω théō theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly, in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate):—+ advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give

5207 son + 5087 conceive

Lord, please spare us the educated idiots.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Ancient Israel was adopted by the Father. (Exodus 4:22)

Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)

We must be born of the Spirit, not adopted by the Spirit.

Begotten by the Gospel.....created in Christ Jesus.

Where do those fit in your little scenario?
 

Patrick Cronin

New member
Sin is not a commodity. Sin is what Adam did- that is, he disobeyed. He needn't have chosen to disobey but he did. He was punished for it, but if he did not have a choice,that would be unjust. Sin is an on-going state, namely being separated from God. What Jesus achieved by His death was to pay the impossible price for human disobedience. This does not mean that since the death of Jesus human beings have been reduced to automatons who cannot sin. Paul makes that abundantly clear in Romans and Jesus said "Whose sins you forgive they are forgiven.."(John 20:23) stating that people will on sinning even after the death of Jesus. This is because we still have the choice to follow Jesus or to imitate Adam all over again. (We all do it!) We all need on-going repentance and ongoing forgiveness. Get real!
 
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