Jesus said, "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God." (John 20:17)
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Romans 8:16)
JESUS: "Behold, I Stand At The Door And Knock" Rev. 3:20.
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Jesus said, "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God." (John 20:17)
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Romans 8:16)
glorydaz
Well-known member
If that was true, Jesus had no need to come, did He?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Read what you wrote, and then tell me where your proof is.
There is some serious extrapolating going on there.
Did you leave out some words, or perhaps add something to what is written that isn't there?
Believers are sons by adoption. All men are children of our Creator God. You've gone way past those basic facts, into the land of imagination.
glorydaz
Well-known member
What about the church in the wilderness?
Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
We have assemblies made up of both saved and unsaved.
Clearly, not all in the visible church assembly are in the body of Christ.
Jesus' death did two things, it provided reconciliation with the Father for mankind.
It also provided the blood for the Passover for firstborn sons of God.
Jesus is our Passover Lamb.
Nope, we are sons by begettal.
Yeah, that's Jesus' parable of the wheat and the tares.
glorydaz
Well-known member
All well and good, but each man must accept that peace by believing the Gospel of Peace. Rom. 10:15
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Peace is only good if both parties agree, and life only comes when we (personally) are reconciled to God.
Are you Jewish? I'm not. The law was only a shadow of what was to come.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Begotten by the Gospel as adopted sons of God. That's the heart of the Gospel, Jamie.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
I've had trouble wrapping my head around that too.
But John tells us that Jesus is the only begotten son.
That only leaves adoption no matter how much I might wish it were not so.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'd like to say I understood this subject perfectly, but I don't.
I've heard some say Jesus was begotten at the resurrection, but I think that is just when it was DECLARED AS A DECREE. :idunno:
Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
"having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever" (1 Peter 1:23)
We were first begotten by our human father and then begotten again by our heavenly Father so that we might be born into an incorruptible body.
"So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body." (1 Corinthians 15:42-44)
"For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now." (Romans 8:22)
Birth pangs?
G4944
συνωδίνω
sunōdinō
soon-o-dee'-no
From G4862 and G5605; to have (parturition) pangs in company (concert, simultaneously) with, that is, (figuratively) to sympathize (in expectation of relief from suffering): - travail in pain together.
We can't be born again until we are first begotten again.
Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)
Are you anti-Semitic. I'm not.
Adoption is not so bad. It was not a free adoption. We have been bought with the blood of Christ, 1 Corinthians 6:20.
Really?
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Good scripture Patrick. Its hard to soar with the eagles when you have to run with the turkeys.
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, I'm not. Aren't you glad we got that out of the way?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Being begotten by the Gospel (the word), happens before we are given spiritual bodies.
It looks to me like you're trying to make being begotten (as new creatures), and being raised with spiritual bodies take the place of being adopted children of God.
I can't agree....seems to be a case of apples and oranges to me.
glorydaz
Well-known member
It's better. You're taken off the streets where you had no hope, and bought with great price.
Talk about being valued.
