alwight
New member
Is there a difference between murder and abortion?
JEFFERSON's AVATAR
- Thread starter OMEGA
- Start date
Of course ... in the same way there was a difference in slavery and non slavery and the killing of Jews during the Holocaust.
ALL are evil. ALL prey (preyed on the innocent). However, only one of these are LEGAL today.
No one argues anymore about how evil the Holocaust was.
No one argues anymore about how evil slavery was.
However, there are those who still find it perfectly acceptable to kill an unborn child based their location.
It's also rather telling that the FACT that the unborn did not place themselves in their location is not taken into consideration. If not for the mother and father's actions, the unborn child would have never been conceived.
alwight
New member
I'm at all not sure that talk of slavery or the Holocaust is really relevant here btw.
lain:FTR my position is this: a longer term foetus I would be very reluctant indeed to ever resort to abortion if I were involved. Early term clusters of cells have no awareness imo and therefore it's the woman's right to choose that should be respected. Many are aborted anyway quite naturally without intervention all the time.
But there are also medical situations where I feel very strongly that an abortion at pretty much any time could indeed be totally justified morally. In fact not to do so sometimes could well be much more immoral, heartless and cruel.
While I'm on my high horse, I don't presume to dictate my morality on others btw and so it's indeed for others to make their own decisions where they are concerned.
Murder or keeping slaves for personal gain is wrong imo but it is a different morality to responsible abortion. Abortion is certainly not always wrong and those that find themselves forced into the making of a sometimes agonised over decision should not have to face the criticism of sometimes over-righteous outsiders.
madman
New member
Care to share one of your family photos?
alwight
New member
I really think you should find your own porn. :thumb:
madman
New member
So YOU are the other guy? Makes sense.
alwight
New member
You certainly seem to know a lot about it?
madman
New member
Just what you claim.You certainly seem to know a lot about it?
Except in the rare occasion of rape, no one is EVER forced to get pregnant. Consent to sex IS consent to the acknowledgment that one very well may end up pregnant with another human being.
Are we stating that women and men are too stupid to realize that IF they have unprotected sex or their protection fails, they very well may end up pregnant?
IF people are truly THAT stupid, they would be better off remaining abstinent so they don't take the chance of breeding.
BTW, there is absolutely nothing self righteous about advocating for protection of those who are unable to protect themselves.
I find it rather ironic and hypocritical that people are whining about Jefferson's avatar being offensive and then in the next breath defending the slaughter of unborn babies.
alwight
New member
As I said before a small cluster of cells is not something that bothers me all that much and this is what is often the case, unlike in the avatar, which would. But each case must surely be decided on its merits not by a dogmatic one size fits all..
Freethinker93
New member
If that case were overturned I would still be making the same argument and the same statements. It has nothing to do with legality, but everything to do with a woman's right to decide what gets to grow inside her and what doesn't. The child, until birth or an appropriate time in the womb, is not a citizen, thus it has no legal right to live. FTR, I am 100% against late term abortions, but thats another debate.
How does me being pro-choice make me pro-slavery? I don't see the connection, I think you're just grasping at straws. When slavery was legal there was a vast majority of abolitionists, you may know them; they were called the NORTH. So just because something is legal does not mean I support it. Get a clue.
We are not all walking tumors. When I say tumor, I think of something that cannot think, or fend for itself. I can do both, as I'm sure you can, so no, thats not my logic at all. Although there are some I wish I could remove from society based on the merit that they are totally useless hahaha
I agree with one of your last statements; abortion is an avoidable method, and if it were me or my significant other, it would be my last solution. If you had read my initial comment, you would have read that I am personally against abortion, but I feel women have the right to choose. Thats my stand, and I don't see it changing.
I'm a little confused as to what you mean with your very last statement? "The choice should be made prior to getting pregnant." With all due respect, that makes no sense. If I am a woman, I'm going to decide to get an abortion (or vice versa) before I have sex with a man and potentially get pregnant?
I am personally against child and spousal abuse.
I am personally against rape and child molestation.
I am personally against murder.
The reason I am against all of these is the same reason I am against abortion: it devalues, victimizes and harms (in this case kills) another innocent human being.
It means exactly what I said. Women and men KNOW that sex can result in being pregnant with an innocent baby. IF men and women do not want to have children, there are many methods available to make sure this does not happen. Sterilization, abstinence, contraception, etc.
However, thanks to AOD, abortion IS the preferred method of birth control for many couples.
IF AOD were not available, women and men would have a much greater concern about getting pregnant because abortion would no longer be safe and convenient.
It should never be convenient to take the life of another individual ... especially one's own child, who by no fault of their own, was conceived.
Abortion is a particular kind of murder, so, "No".
drbrumley
Well-known member
Today, we are seeing a piecemeal destruction of individual freedom. And in abortion, the statists have found a most effective method of obliterating freedom: obliterating the individual. Abortion on demand is the ultimate State tyranny; the State simply declares that certain classes of human beings are not persons, and therefore not entitled to the protection of the law. The State protects the "right" of some people to kill others, just as the courts protected the "property rights" of slave masters in their slaves. Moreover, by this method the State achieves a goal common to all totalitarian regimes: it sets us against each other, so that our energies are spent in the struggle between State-created classes, rather than in freeing all individuals from the State. Unlike Nazi Germany, which forcibly sent millions to the gas chambers (as well as forcing abortion and sterilization upon many more), the new regime has enlisted the assistance of millions of people to act as its agents in carrying out a program of mass murder.
That would be way more disgusting than Jeff's avatar.
Either it's alive or it isn't. Opinion to the contrary will not change that fact.
Do you have any examples of when it is not wrong or murder?
I just think it's kinda weird that it's OK for him to have an aborted baby on his avatar but I can't have a picture of myself for mine.
zoo22
Well-known member
It's desensitizing. Whatever. Nothing anyone says about will make any difference. Except maybe to have folks who approve of it dig their heels in more.
There was a thread about it a while back.
There was a thread about it a while back.
alwight
New member
OK so as far as you're concerned there can be no mitigating circumstances at all, never, it's simply murder. Be it severe congenital dysfunction or that the medical prognosis for the woman is likely to be death. For you then whatever the situation abortion is dogmatically always murder.
However as far as I'm concerned there are many circumstances such as rape, and the above, when I'd support abortion. At least then the woman could possibly have a child by someone she loved and a child too that would in turn be wanted and loved, not rejected. This you would seem to deny her in order to cling to your dogmatic belief that abortion can never be justified.
I think that is heartless, cruel and plain wrong btw. Fortunately doctors and others are rather less dogmatic than you are.
alwight
New member
Yes, I can personally think of several instances that, with hindsight perhaps, abortion would have been very justified indeed. :wave2: