It pleased YHWH to bruise him, to make his soul an offering for sin
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Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Read Lev 5:11-13. When somebody sins, he can bring a flour offering, no blood, and he is forgiven.
No such a thing as "without blood there is no atonement".
And of course, this too speaks about unintentional sins. For intentional sins there is no sacrifice, only repentance.
For more see here: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/sacrifices
Elia
Well-known member
You and Elia are not only not on the same page, you're not in the same book.
Don't you realize Judaism was invented in the exile by Nebuchadnezzar?
Those portraits notwithstanding, Nebuchadnezzar II was most certainly responsible for the so-called Babylonian Exile of the Jews and, so, for the formation of modern-day Judaism (in that, the temple destroyed, the Priestly class of the Levites of the Jews had to re-create their religion “in a foreign land” as recounted famously in Psalm 137 from the Bible, and elsewhere).
http://www.ancient.eu/Nebuchadnezzar_II/
http://www.ancient.eu/Nebuchadnezzar_II/
https://www.bing.com/search?q=youtu...-49&sk=&cvid=BA40C9B96D864D288939B7ED30C91D94
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beameup
New member
This lone exception is for the extremely poor who cannot even afford two pigeons or two doves. You are misrepresenting YHWH through trickery.
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. - Leviticus 17:11
oatmeal
Well-known member
synonyms?
Can you answer my questions?
You didn't
Can you answer my questions?
If you can, please do so
Who is the Lord?
Who did the Lord lay the iniquity of us all upon?
Who is the Lord?
Who did the Lord bruise?
Who is the Lord?
Who did the Lord put to grief?
Who is the Lord?
Who soul did the Lord make be an offering for sin?
I know the answers to my questions
oatmeal
Well-known member
From your reference I copied and pasted the following:
" The strongest proof for the servant being the people of Israel is Isaiah 42. This is also claimed by the NT as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 12:16-21; "And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.""
Has God always been pleased with the people of Israel?
If you have read the OT, it is very clear that God was very displeased with the people of Israel seems like most of the time.
I have stretched forth my hands to a gainsaying and disobedient people.
popsthebuilder
New member
Christ is the answer to every question you asked. The Spirit of GOD is synonymous with the Spirit of Christ.
Why does it seem like you took offence to my response?
OK, that explains why donuts were served on the Day of Atonement.
Yeah, I had wondered about that.
Is that Spirit holy?
popsthebuilder
New member
I can only assume you are referring to theHoly Spirit; in which case I would say yes.
It is holy in that it isn't our spirit.
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Yes,the holy Spirit is the father of Jesus.
"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 1:18)
"Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 1:20)
popsthebuilder
New member
I wasn't limiting the Spirit of Christ/ the Spirit of GOD, to the man Jesus.
God's Spirit was not available to anyone while Jesus was human.
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit whom those believing in Him would receive, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7:38-39)
popsthebuilder
New member
You seem tonthinkbyhe holy Spirit is a creation like the man Jesus. It isn't; GOD IE eternal.
No I don't. Why would you think such a thing?
Scripture plainly says Jesus was conceived by the Father's Spirit.
All you have to do is be guided by scripture instead of making up things.
:doh:
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
We see that in the case of a poor person, he gets atonement without the shedding of blood.
Therefore; there is no such a thing as "without blood there is no atonement".
And of course, this too speaks about unintentional sins. For intentional sins there is no sacrifice, only repentance.
For more see here: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/sacrifices
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
No, I don't. Judaism started when God gave the Torah on mount Sinai 3300 years ago.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
It proves that there is atonement without the shedding of blood.
Therefore; there is no such a thing as "without blood there is no atonement".
And of course, this too speaks about unintentional sins. For intentional sins there is no sacrifice, only repentance.
For more see here: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/sacrifices
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
It doesn't say in Isaiah 53 that God was pleased with Israel all of the time.
Did you read that the text of Isaiah 42 and context literally spells out that the servant is Israel?
“Behold, my servant shall act wisely;” You believe this is JC. You believe JC is god. So God is his own servant?
“his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the children of mankind”
When did that happen to JC?
“a man of sorrows, and acquainted with sickness” When exactly was JC sick?
“Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.”
Wasn’t JC a very popular preacher who entered Jerusalem amongst a big crowd of followers?
A mistranslation: “Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.”
The word “yet” seems to imply that the considerations of the Jewish people that he was stricken by God, was wrong.
However, that word “yet” is nowhere to be found in the Hebrew. It is inserted by translators who want to prove their point.
“But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities;”
The same holds true for the word “But”, which also seems to imply that the Jews were wrong. In both places in the Hebrew only the word “and” is written, so the correct translation is as follows: “Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, and we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. And he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;”
“He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth;”
He didn’t open his mouth? When Jesus said this, one of the officials nearby struck him in the face. "Is this the way you answer the high priest?" he demanded. "If I said something wrong," Jesus replied, "testify as to what is wrong. But if I spoke the truth, why did you strike me?" John 18:22
When he was hanging at the cross he accused God, that is himself; he cried out: “Why did I forsake myself?”
“At the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?" Mark 15:34
He didn’t open his mouth?
“for the transgression of my people the plague was upon them”
This is a very clear proof it speaks about the Jewish people being punished for their own sins. “The plague was upon THEM”. Plural. So this is not about a singular person, so this is not about the messiah.
The Hebrew word translated as “upon them” is “lamo” The same word “lamo” is also used in Genesis 9:26-27: “God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be THEIR servant."
Deut 32:32; “and THEIR clusters are bitter.” Literally: “For them are bitter clusters.”
Deut 32: 35 “and their destiny will overtake THEM”
Deut 33:2; “"The LORD came from Sinai and dawned OVER THEM from Seir;”
The word “lamo” which means “for them” or “upon them” is also used in Isaiah 16:4, 26:14+16, 35:8, Psalm 119:165.
Some translations, realizing they cannot get around the plural, translate it as: “for the transgression of my people, TO WHOM the stroke was due?” Like this it is translated by the NASB, AMP, ASV, and in the footnote of the NIV.
But this is a very forced translation. There is nothing “due” in verse 8.
“He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence”
Done no violence? “So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.” John 2:15
“And with the rich in his death” The Hebrew word for “death” is written in the plural, again indicating it does not speak about a singular person. Unless of course Christianity wants to say that their god died several times. If you say this talks about a whole people, then there is no problem.
But, if you want to say this speaks about the messiah, then you are in trouble.
And of course, this word is mistranslated in about every Christian translation to be found.
“Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief;” So it was the will of God to crush Himself???
“when he makes his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days” God makes himself an offering for sin? JC sees his offspring? How is he going to do that? He was never married.
“He shall prolong his days”
God is going to prolong his days when he makes himself an offering for sin? And if he doesn’t, God is not going to prolong his days?
But didn’t God die when he was 30?
“when he makes his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring”
God needs to make himself an offering in order to be able to forgive his creatures? God first has to be murdered by his creatures, and only then he can forgive them?
“Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong” God is going to give Himself a portion with the strong? When exactly did JC get that?