Makers of the vaccine claim it has less than 10% failure rate in 6 months but that nobody knows for sure what happens in time periods longer than the initial 6 months.
Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine?
- Thread starter marke
- Start date
I am not afraid of fetal tissue research. I am disgusted by it.
Then skip the J&J vaccine. The other, more effective ones, don't have anything to do with such research.
So how is that inconsistent with what I've been saying? - It's not!
Besides that, you were talking about how long natural (i.e. post infection) immunity lasts and there is actual published research on that specific question.
What we know about natural immunity
The good news is that there is reason to believe that immunity from COVID-19 vaccines will last at least longer than six months.
Natural immunity (i.e. immunity in people who have been infected with COVID-19) can last for up to eight months, according to research published in Science. Vaccine-derived immunity can sometimes be stronger and longer-lasting, but this is by no means always the case, and so with COVID-19 vaccines the jury is still out.
The researchers in Science add that although immune memory is what leads to long-term immunity, it’s hard to predict how long immunity will last because the exact mechanisms of protective immunity used by our bodies against SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19 are not yet known.
I will wait a little longer before even considering taking the virus. Six months' worth of tracking is not enough time to guarantee its effectiveness or safety.
I hardly see claims that ignorance of the duration of immunities to the covid virus which have resulted from covid virus infections should cause us to assume those immunities are short-lived.
Yes I did! You're the one who is ignoring the science here, Marke!
And that's the real issue here as far as I'm concerned. I don't really give a damn whether you get the vaccine or not. What I care about is the fact that I've responded to every emotion based, nonsensical, fear mongering statement you've made on this thread with sober reasoning and fact after fact after established scientific fact and it hasn't moved you one single inch. There isn't anything that could move you. If God Himself came down and told you to get the vaccine, you'd obey but you wouldn't like it.
It's a problem that has existed for years, not only here on TOL but throughout our entire society. People simply do not make decisions based on anything related to reason, logic or anything else related to critical thinking. There is a COMPLETE absence rational thought on the left to the point that there isn't even any point in trying to have a discussion with anyone who hates Donald Trump, believes in global warming, that sodomy is love or that masks mandates and lock downs were / are a good idea. It is literally impossible to change their minds because they have turned off their minds and never used their mind to formulate their positions in the first place.
You sir are making the EXACT same error. Your position concerning these vaccines is fear based and has nothing to do with science or anything else intellectual. You won't take that vaccine for the same kind of reason that most black people just keep on voting Democrat, which is no "reason" at all but rather emotion.
Clete
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How can science prove immunity to covid which resulted from a covid infection does not last for years when covid is barely a year old itself? How can science prove immunity from covid last for years in those who take a vaccine which less than a year old?
What?
It isn't an assumption. COVID19 is not the first virus to show up, Marke. It's not even the first Corona Virus to show up. We do have some understanding of how long the immune system responds to such viruses and there isn't any reason to think (i.e. to assume) that somehow this virus is going to cause our bodies to create a permanent immunity against it.
Not only that but the eight month duration discussed in that article is BASED ON PUBLISH RESEARCH!!!! It is the exact opposite of an assumption!
Clete
It isn't hard at all!
First of all, there isn't any immunity to ANY similar virus that lasts for years. That just does not happen with this type of virus.
More importantly, they can watch people who have had the virus and see if and when they get it again.
Turns out that the research points to as much as 8 months, which is typical for this type of viral infection, by the way. The actual timing is going to vary from person to person depending on many factors, chief among them being viral load and frequency of infection. That is to say that those who had a high viral load while infected may benefit from a more robust post infection immune response and those who are repeatedly exposed to the virus will likely keep making antibodies until the repeated exposure stops.
Clete
Just because you find opinions published in a report does not mean that report is accurate. Nobody knows how long the immunity from a new virus infection or immunity from a new vaccine will last until more time has passed for examination and determination.
It looks like immunity from infections is at least as high and as long-lasting as reported results from vaccines, so I believe there is no cause for concern.
Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19
The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.
Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.
Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.
As with antibodies, the numbers of different immune cell types varied substantially between individuals. Neither gender nor differences in disease severity could account for this variability. However, 95% of the people had at least 3 out of 5 immune-system components that could recognize SARS-CoV-2 up to 8 months after infection.
“Several months ago, our studies showed that natural infection induced a strong response, and this study now shows that the responses last,” Weiskopf says. “We are hopeful that a similar pattern of responses lasting over time will also emerge for the vaccine-induced responses.”
Right Divider
Body part
I think that you meant "eradicated".
No. Clete was the one that said polio had been irradiated. That's why I said I didn't know that polio had been irradiated. The polio vaccine had very little to do with the vast reduction of polio cases.
Right Divider
Body part
Sorry, I only saw it in your post.
expos4ever
Well-known member
Yes, there is a risk of death after the covid vaccine - everybody dies after the covid vaccine.
Of course everybody dies after being born.
Of course everybody dies after being born.
You're a liar, Marke. These two sentences are you telling an intentional lie.
I don't know who it is you're trying to convince with this stupidity but you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
I can just about guarantee you that you are no longer immune.
That is, if you ever were to begin with. The way this is starting to go, with you just saying things for effect that have no basis in reality, I have my doubts that you ever had the virus at all.
So now you cite the exact same science with the exact same "up to 8 month" immune response that you just got through blowing off as an opinion and try to use it to tell me that "there is no cause for concern" over a year after you supposedly had the virus.The researchers found durable immune responses in the majority of people studied. Antibodies against the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which the virus uses to get inside cells, were found in 98% of participants one month after symptom onset. As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19
The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.www.nih.gov
Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.
Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.
As with antibodies, the numbers of different immune cell types varied substantially between individuals. Neither gender nor differences in disease severity could account for this variability. However, 95% of the people had at least 3 out of 5 immune-system components that could recognize SARS-CoV-2 up to 8 months after infection.
“Several months ago, our studies showed that natural infection induced a strong response, and this study now shows that the responses last,” Weiskopf says. “We are hopeful that a similar pattern of responses lasting over time will also emerge for the vaccine-induced responses.”
You're either a liar or your delusional and stupid.
Either way, you're a complete waste of time.
Clete
You're a freakishly gigantic waste of bandwidth. Why are you even here?
I never claimed that Polio had been eradicated but only nearly so....
Wild poliovirus has been eradicated in all continents except Asia, and as of 2020, Afghanistan and Pakistan are the only two countries where the disease is still classified as endemic.
Recent polio cases arise from two sources, the original 'wild' poliovirus (WPV), and mutated oral vaccine strains, so-called circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus (cVDPV). There were 140 diagnosed WPV cases worldwide in 2020, a decrease from 2019's 5-year high, an 81% reduction from the 719 diagnosed cases in 2000 and a 99.96% reduction from the estimated 350,000 cases when the eradication effort began in 1988. Of the three strains of WPV, the last recorded wild case caused by type 2 (WPV2) was in 1999, and WPV2 was declared eradicated in 2015. Type 3 (WPV3) is last known to have caused polio in 2012, and was declared eradicated in 2019. All wild-virus cases since that date have been due to type 1 (WPV1). Vaccines against each of the three types have given rise to emergent strains of cVDPV, with cVDPV2 being most prominent, and such strains caused over 1000 polio cases in 2020.
In the last 12 months (5/19/20 - 5/18-21) there have been a total of 980 cases world wide. Source
Your chances of getting Polio are many times smaller than getting struck by lightning twice unless you live in Pakistan where there is no health infrastructure! Pretty much everywhere else in the world your chances drop basically to zero because, as I said in my previous post, it has been all but completely eradicated.
And, incidentally, the near eradication of the virus has been accomplished because of the vaccines. Many many hundreds of thousands, even millions of people, mostly children, don't have to be crippled and die young thanks to a vaccine that is significantly less effective against Polio than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are against COVID19.
Clete
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