Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine?

[Clete]

I never jumped out of an airplane with a parachute that could not be 100% relied upon to be safe. Covid vaccines are not 100% safe, so you do what you like I will not be taking it.

Oh yes you did!

There is no such thing as a parachute that "can be 100% relied upon to be safe".

One person dies because of a failed parachute for every 175439 jumps. That's .57 deaths per 100,000 jumps or .00057%. Just about one fifth (19%) as often as people die shortly after getting a COVID shot!

Clete

 

[marke]

Nobody would! That would be a .1% chance! That's a pretty small number but the COVID stat that you're all worked up about is a .003% chance!

And that's of people dying of SOMETHING "shortly after" (that probably means within 2 weeks) of getting the COVID shot.


Now that's is a completely rational reason to not get the vaccine!

And to reiterate something I've said from the beginning, no one should be forced to get this vaccine. My only point is that a .003% chance of dying of something shortly after getting the shot is not a rational reason to avoid getting it. You take much bigger chances than that every day of your life. If we're going to be scared, lets find something real to be scared about. Like the government forcing your to carry papers to prove you've complied with their will.

COVID Passports are coming!

Clete

Not so fast. There is a proven .003% chance of dying from the vaccine, but results from months of still unfinished research have yet to determine if the thousands of other deaths which occurred shortly after taking the vaccine were actually caused by the vaccine.

 

[marke]

Nobody would! That would be a .1% chance! That's a pretty small number but the COVID stat that you're all worked up about is a .003% chance!

And that's of people dying of SOMETHING "shortly after" (that probably means within 2 weeks) of getting the COVID shot.


Now that's is a completely rational reason to not get the vaccine!

And to reiterate something I've said from the beginning, no one should be forced to get this vaccine. My only point is that a .003% chance of dying of something shortly after getting the shot is not a rational reason to avoid getting it. You take much bigger chances than that every day of your life. If we're going to be scared, lets find something real to be scared about. Like the government forcing your to carry papers to prove you've complied with their will.

COVID Passports are coming!

Clete

Passports and the mark of the beast are coming. You can take that to the bank.

 

[marke]

No such thing as absolute 100% safe. The aeroplane wouldn't have been 100% safe either so if your yardstick is perfection then you should never have boarded a plane or jumped out of one.

Wrong. If I never take the vaccine I am 100% safe from the possibility of dying from the vaccine.

 

[marke]

Oh yes you did!

There is no such thing as a parachute that "can be 100% relied upon to be safe".

One person dies because of a failed parachute for every 175439 jumps. That's .57 deaths per 100,000 jumps or .00057%. Just about one fifth (19%) as often as people die shortly after getting a COVID shot!

Clete

Hundreds of people are still dying shortly after taking the vaccine and more are still becoming infected with covid after taking the vaccines. You are right, people still die from malfunctioning parachutes. I could have been one of those statistics myself one time when my parachute became entangled with another soldier's. Ignoring rules for tandem landings in tangled parachute situations, I disentangled us and slipped free of the other jumper. Why trust parachutes more than vaccines? One problem I see with vaccines is the fact that they have not been fully tested, have not been fully approved, and do not have more than a few months' track record of alleged safety and effectiveness. Parachutes have had decades of known effectiveness and safety.

 

[Clete]

Not so fast. There is a proven .003% chance of dying from the vaccine,

NO THERE IS NOT!!!!!

That's the whole entire point!

There are .003% of people who die shortly after getting the shot but they do not all die of the same thing which is why they DO NOT believe that it is linked to the shot. These people simply die OF SOMETHING shortly after having gotten the shot. That number is literally tiny! It absolutely could very easily be coincidental timing.

but results from months of still unfinished research have yet to determine if the thousands of other deaths which occurred shortly after taking the vaccine were actually caused by the vaccine.

That's not what any of your posts have said. Your own posts have simply stated that .003% of people die shortly after getting the shot.

 

[Clete]

Hundreds of people are still dying shortly after taking the vaccine and more are still becoming infected with covid after taking the vaccines. You are right, people still die from malfunctioning parachutes. I could have been one of those statistics myself one time when my parachute became entangled with another soldier's. Ignoring rules for tandem landings in tangled parachute situations, I disentangled us and slipped free of the other jumper. Why trust parachutes more than vaccines? One problem I see with vaccines is the fact that they have not been fully tested, have not been fully approved, and do not have more than a few months' track record of alleged safety and effectiveness. Parachutes have had decades of known effectiveness and safety.

It isn't really the amount of time, it's the number of jumps. If a million people a day were using parachutes there's be thousands of people dying over a several month period of time. If the numbers held up, the number would be about one fifth that of the number you're all worked up about with the COVID shot but the number would still be in the thousands.

The point being that you really ought to allow that point to persuade your mind because you have as much as stated that you 100% trust parachutes to protect you against something that is infinitely more deadly than the COVID virus. Jumping out of an airplane at altitude without a chute is a guaranteed death sentence. COVID kills maybe 2% of those who get the disease (the real number is probably less than 1%) and you're scared to death of the vaccine while at the same time you're perfectly - literally PERFECTLY - comfortable with jumping out of an airplane so long as you have the falling out of an airplane vaccine strapped to your back.

COVID19 death rate	Jumping from tens of thousands of feet without a chute death rate
~2% 3.38 mil deaths / 163 mil "cases" = 2%	100%
Deaths that happen for any non-accidental reason after taking COVID shot .003% - 3 persons per 100k shots	Approximate deaths due to chute failure .00057% - .57 deaths per 100k jumps
Marke's reaction: NO WAY IN HELL AM I TAKING THAT CRAZY DANGEROUS SHOT! IT'S KILLING PEOPLE BY THE THOUSANDS!	Marke's reaction: Jumping from planes with a parachute is a no brainier! I love it and recommend you give a shot! I'll go with you if you'd like and literally show you the ropes! It's completely safe!

Clete

 

[marke]

NO THERE IS NOT!!!!!

That's the whole entire point!

There are .003% of people who die shortly after getting the shot but they do not all die of the same thing which is why they DO NOT believe that it is linked to the shot. These people simply die OF SOMETHING shortly after having gotten the shot. That number is literally tiny! It absolutely could very easily be coincidental timing.


That's not what any of your posts have said. Your own posts have simply stated that .003% of people die shortly after getting the shot.

Only 6% of all covid deaths were direct results of covid alone, so it is not surprising that likely hundreds of those who died shortly after taking the vaccine also died of multiple causes.

 

[marke]

It isn't really the amount of time, it's the number of jumps. If a million people a day were using parachutes there's be thousands of people dying over a several month period of time. If the numbers held up, the number would be about one fifth that of the number you're all worked up about with the COVID shot but the number would still be in the thousands.

The point being that you really ought to allow that point to persuade your mind because you have as much as stated that you 100% trust parachutes to protect you against something that is infinitely more deadly than the COVID virus. Jumping out of an airplane at altitude without a chute is a guaranteed death sentence. COVID kills maybe 2% of those who get the disease (the real number is probably less than 1%) and you're scared to death of the vaccine while at the same time you're perfectly - literally PERFECTLY - comfortable with jumping out of an airplane so long as you have the falling out of an airplane vaccine strapped to your back.

COVID19 death rate	Jumping from tens of thousands of feet without a chute death rate
~2% 3.38 mil deaths / 163 mil "cases" = 2%	100%
Deaths that happen for any non-accidental reason after taking COVID shot .003% - 3 persons per 100k shots	Approximate deaths due to chute failure .00057% - .57 deaths per 100k jumps
Marke's reaction: NO WAY IN HELL AM I TAKING THAT CRAZY DANGEROUS SHOT! IT'S KILLING PEOPLE BY THE THOUSANDS!	Marke's reaction: Jumping from planes with a parachute is a no brainier! I love it and recommend you give a shot! I'll go with you if you'd like and literally show you the ropes! It's completely safe!

Clete

Only 6% of all covid deaths were from covid alone. I have already had covid so I have more immunity than a vaccine could give me. I will not be getting the vaccine no matter how few you may think will die from it.

 

[Clete]

Only 6% of all covid deaths were from covid alone.

Yes, the number I gave were worst case. The fact that the numbers are inflated only boosts my point.

I have already had covid so I have more immunity than a vaccine could give me.

You can't know that. I've had a hard time fining any data at all on post infection immunity. What I have found suggests (which means they don't know) that post infection immunity may only last 4 - 6 months.

Even if it's true it's only marginally better because the protection from the vaccine is almost total. (i.e. greater than 99%). There is no data at all on how long immunity from the vaccine lasts. (That I can find.)

I will not be getting the vaccine no matter how few you may think will die from it.

That's fine with me just don't use irrational reasons to make such a decision. Christians ought not make decision foolishly and we most certainly ought not go around telling people about the nonsensical reasons we've based the decision on as though they should follow our lead.

Clete

 

[Clete]

Only 6% of all covid deaths were direct results of covid alone, so it is not surprising that likely hundreds of those who died shortly after taking the vaccine also died of multiple causes.

Thank you for making my point! Even if the vaccine has caused someone to die, we know that the statistic is .003% at the most which is a very very tiny percentage already!

 

[marke]

You can't know that. I've had a hard time fining any data at all on post infection immunity. What I have found suggests (which means they don't know) that post infection immunity may only last 4 - 6 months.

Even if it's true it's only marginally better because the protection from the vaccine is almost total. (i.e. greater than 99%). There is no data at all on how long immunity from the vaccine lasts. (That I can find.)

Let's point out a few things. Medical professionals are saying those recovering from covid have more antibodies against covid in their system than can be gotten by a vaccine. If someone wants to claim that is not proven then they must also admit the effectiveness of vaccines for covid have also not yet been proven. How long have covid vaccines been studied for effectiveness, 6 months? That is not proof any more than medical assertions that having covid protects those who recover from getting covid again.

 

[marke]

Thank you for making my point! Even if the vaccine has caused someone to die, we know that the statistic is .003% at the most which is a very very tiny percentage already!

Government officials and researchers tied to government approval admit at least .003% of vaccine recipients will die from the vaccine. However, those officials are not yet ready to rule on the hundreds of other deaths which may have been caused by the vaccine.

 

[Clete]

Let's point out a few things. Medical professionals are saying those recovering from covid have more antibodies against covid in their system than can be gotten by a vaccine.

While this is true, there is no evidence that the vaccine is any less effective and, in fact, there has been more than one study that shows less than 1% of those vaccinated aquire the disease after having been intentionally exposed to the virus and so it would be difficult to get much more protected than that anyway.

If someone wants to claim that is not proven then they must also admit the effectiveness of vaccines for covid have also not yet been proven.

Whether the claim is true or false is not what is being disputed. It's the effect that the increase in viral antibodies vs that of the vaccine that is in dispute.

If all you need is 1 of something and what you have is 3 then that doesn't mean those with only 1 don't have enough.

How long have covid vaccines been studied for effectiveness, 6 months?

Asked and answered.

It isn't about the length of time. Even post infection immunity is only believed to be temporary and so time isn't a relevant metric. The fact is that hundreds of millions of doses have been administered with almost completely positive results. The state of Texas just had a day with zero reported cases of COVID19 less than three months after Joe Biden called our Governor a Neaderthal for lifting the totally ineffective restriction that should never have been put in place to begin with. That's literally hundreds of people per day that aren't getting infected with a disease which we know for a fact kills people and there is exactly zero excess death due to any other cause which means this vaccine is saving lives, not killing people.

That is not proof any more than medical assertions that having covid protects those who recover from getting covid again.

I'm not sure I understood this sentence but in actual fact, anything that gives someone immunity, even partial immunity, has a protective effect on those around them because they're one less place for the vaccine to live, multiply and spread. This is why it isn't necessary to have everyone be immune in order for herd immunity to kick in and effectively end the virus' spread in a community. The buffoons on T.V. want people to think that we need 60-75% immunity for herd immunity to work but the real number is closer to 50%. It just depends on how you draw the graph and what numbers you want to set as the goal infection rate. The difference being determined primarily by political considerations rather than science.

Clete

 

[Clete]

Government officials and researchers tied to government approval admit at least .003% of vaccine recipients will die from the vaccine. However, those officials are not yet ready to rule on the hundreds of other deaths which may have been caused by the vaccine.

.003% of people die after getting the shot vs. 2% of people who get COVID19.

Both of those numbers are high but they both come from the same government sources so what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

One of those death rate numbers is 667 times bigger than the other.

Clete

 

[marke]

While this is true, there is no evidence that the vaccine is any less effective and, in fact, there has been more than one study that shows less than 1% of those vaccinated aquire the disease after having been intentionally exposed to the virus and so it would be difficult to get much more protected than that anyway.
Whether the claim is true or false is not what is being disputed. It's the effect that the increase in viral antibodies vs that of the vaccine that is in dispute.
If all you need is 1 of something and what you have is 3 then that doesn't mean those with only 1 don't have enough.
Asked and answered.

Researchers are still in the very early stages of trying to assess the effectiveness and safety of vaccines. Questioning their effectiveness and safety should be something that everyone does at this early stage.

It isn't about the length of time. Even post infection immunity is only believed to be temporary and so time isn't a relevant metric. The fact is that hundreds of millions of doses have been administered with almost completely positive results. The state of Texas just had a day with zero reported cases of COVID19 less than three months after Joe Biden called our Governor a Neaderthal for lifting the totally ineffective restriction that should never have been put in place to begin with. That's literally hundreds of people per day that aren't getting infected with a disease which we know for a fact kills people and there is exactly zero excess death due to any other cause which means this vaccine is saving lives, not killing people.

Attributing falling death rates to the vaccine introduced after the death rates had already begun falling is like attributing a miraculous cure to a placebo.

I'm not sure I understood this sentence but in actual fact, anything that gives someone immunity, even partial immunity, has a protective effect on those around them because they're one less place for the vaccine to live, multiply and spread. This is why it isn't necessary to have everyone be immune in order for herd immunity to kick in and effectively end the virus' spread in a community. The buffoons on T.V. want people to think that we need 60-75% immunity for herd immunity to work but the real number is closer to 50%. It just depends on how you draw the graph and what numbers you want to set as the goal infection rate. The difference being determined primarily by political considerations rather than science.

Clete

Herd immunity has been the cause of declining deaths in almost all previous disease outbreaks. Human efforts to try to stop covid resulted in longer periods of ongoing infections due to lower levels of herd immunity.

 

[marke]

.003% of people die after getting the shot vs. 2% of people who get COVID19.

Both of those numbers are high but they both come from the same government sources so what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

One of those death rate numbers is 667 times bigger than the other.

Clete

Other nations are reporting adverse reactions in thousands who have received the vaccine. American health organizations have declared that approximately .003% of those getting the vaccine died from the vaccine. Hundreds of others have also died after getting the vaccine but the results have not yet been verified as to whether those deaths resulted from the vaccine or from some other cause(s). I will not be getting the vaccine. Let other people do what they like and I will keep an eye on the evolving findings of ongoing research which is right now still in the uncertain stage of preliminary conclusions.

 

[Right Divider]

While this is true, there is no evidence that the vaccine is any less effective and, in fact, there has been more than one study that shows less than 1% of those vaccinated aquire the disease after having been intentionally exposed to the virus and so it would be difficult to get much more protected than that anyway.

I've never heard anyone, including the most pro-COVID-vaccine people (or even the vaccine makers), claim that the vaccines are 99% effective.

 

[Right Divider]

.003% of people die after getting the shot vs. 2% of people who get COVID19.

The vaccine is 100% avoidable.

 

[Gary K]

Clete is wrong in his numbers. In another thread I showed where Sweden has just reported on adverse side effects from the so-called vaccines. The Swedes reported a 3% adverse event rate. Sweden has a population of just under 10,100,000 and reported 31,844 adverse events.

If Clete pulled his number from the VAERS database those numbers are known to be less than 1% of the total vaccine adverse events as proven by a study I posted here commissioned by the CDC and performed by a Harvard medical school in 2010. That study looked at 3 years worth of data and 3/4 of a million patients so it was no small study.

The CDC has known it's numbers were less than useless if someone wanted truth. However, after the study was finished to the point of the CDC knowing their numbers were a very serious undercounting of adverse events they cut of all communication with the Harvard medical school. They didn't want an accurate counting of adverse effects.