Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine?

[Clete]

Researchers are still in the very early stages of trying to assess the effectiveness and safety of vaccines. Questioning their effectiveness and safety should be something that everyone does at this early stage.

Says you.

The published science says that less than 1% of people who have gotten the Pfizer vaccine become symptomatic after having been intentionally exposed to the virus.

Attributing falling death rates to the vaccine introduced after the death rates had already begun falling is like attributing a miraculous cure to a placebo.

Now you're just making stuff up.

The precipitous fall in both positive test rates and hospitalizations are directly attributable to the vaccines. Places where the vaccines aren't as readily available have not seen similar drops and some have seen new outbreaks.

Herd immunity has been the cause of declining deaths in almost all previous disease outbreaks. Human efforts to try to stop covid resulted in longer periods of ongoing infections due to lower levels of herd immunity.

Herd immunity is actually next to impossible to achieve without vaccines because, for most viruses, your body stops making antibodies once it figures out it no longer needs them.

Chicken Pox is an exception. It stays in your body, hiding in your nerve cells for your whole life and so your body just keeps on making antibodies and so almost no one ever gets Chicken Pox more than once. The closest people get is Shingles which is a different phase of the same viral infection but then once Shingles is over with you typically don't have to worry about getting it ever again either, for the same reason.

In any case, one thing you for sure do not want to try to achieve is a purely natural herd immunity (i.e. no vaccine) with COVID19! You'd be talking about hundreds of millions of dead people before you ever got close to herd immunity, if you ever got there at all.

Clete

 

[Clete]

Other nations are reporting adverse reactions in thousands who have received the vaccine. American health organizations have declared that approximately .003% of those getting the vaccine died from the vaccine. Hundreds of others have also died after getting the vaccine but the results have not yet been verified as to whether those deaths resulted from the vaccine or from some other cause(s). I will not be getting the vaccine. Let other people do what they like and I will keep an eye on the evolving findings of ongoing research which is right now still in the uncertain stage of preliminary conclusions.

Stupidity

There are good reasons to not get the vaccine. Nothing you've said in this entire thread is one of them aside from the single fact that you've had the disease and if you had it more than six months ago, even that isn't a good one.

 

[Clete]

The vaccine is 100% avoidable.

But the virus it protects you against isn't. If you haven't been exposed yet, you almost certainly will be eventually unless you plan on living the rest of your life in your own house.

 

[Clete]

I've never heard anyone, including the most pro-COVID-vaccine people (or even the vaccine makers), claim that the vaccines are 99% effective.

Well, what can I tell you? They've done tests on various groups who have gotten the Pfizer vaccine and less than 1% of them aquire the disease after having been fully vaccinated. Less than 1% post vaccine infection rate sounds like better than 99% effective to me!

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said the agency has documented about 5,800 “breakthrough” COVID-19 cases among the millions of Americans who are fully vaccinated, totaling far less than 1 percent of fully vaccinated people.​

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"Vaccine breakthrough infections make up a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated,” the CDC told The Hill in a statement. “CDC recommends that all eligible people get a COVID-19 vaccine as soon as one is available to them.” - The Hill 4/15/21​

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Another similar article cites a second study...

“Another study out of the New England Journal of Medicine found a less than 1-percent breakthrough infection rate when studying hundreds of vaccinated people,” says Dr. Weston.​

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The New England Journal of Medicine study showed only two out of 417 people were infected after receiving both doses, or less than half a percent.​

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Dr. Westergaard says data published by the CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report from the Chicago Health Department found a majority of breakthrough infections happen in places that test routinely.​

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“They tend to be in settings where people are screened periodically in the absence of symptoms such as nursing homes for example,” Dr. Westergaard said. - MILWAUKEE (CBS 58)​

​

Here's a link to one of that actual studies...

Vaccine Breakthrough Infections with SARS-CoV-2 Variants

If you'll recall, back a year ago Dr. Fauci didn't believe any vaccine would be even 60% effective "never mind 95 or 98%" and was down playing people's expectations of a then future vaccine. It turns out that he was wrong even on this ancillary point. The vaccine is far more effective than anyone ever dreamed it would be and has turned out to be even more effective than the clinical trials suggested, which were pretty amazing already.

Clete

 

[ok doser]

... less than 1% of them aquire the disease after having been fully vaccinated.

Not impressed.
Less than 1% of me acquired the disease after not giving a darn about it a year ago.

 

[Clete]

Not impressed.
Less than 1% of me acquired the disease after not giving a darn about it a year ago.

It may actually turn out to be one of the most effective vaccines that has ever been developed for any virus in the history of medical science.

The Rabies vaccine probably has it beat, its pretty much 100% effective and the Flu vaccine is only 40-60% effective and for only one season!

Note, however, that 100% efficacy isn't necessary. Two doses of the Polio vaccine is only about 90% effective and a person isn't considered fully vaccinated against Polio until they receive four doses over months of time and Polio has been all but completely irradiated worldwide.

In other words, I think you have the "impressed" bar set a bit too high.

Clete

 

[marke]

Says you.

The published science says that less than 1% of people who have gotten the Pfizer vaccine become symptomatic after having been intentionally exposed to the virus.

OK, I'll bite. You claim scientists have researched the vaccine and found it 99% safe. How many months, years, or decades of research did such a finding take? It could not have taken more than about 6 months at best. That is why I said results are preliminary and establish nothing concrete.

 

[marke]

Stupidity

There are good reasons to not get the vaccine. Nothing you've said in this entire thread is one of them aside from the single fact that you've had the disease and if you had it more than six months ago, even that isn't a good one.

Our church restricted services for about 6 weeks in early 2020. After that, we opened back up to full capacity and without masks. We also opened our Christian school back up without masks. I got covid after that, which gave me a cough that I had for two weeks before going to the doctor. It turned out that I had covid and pneumonia, but after taking penicillin I was cured of all symptoms 3 days later.

Several members of our church have gotten covid and recovered. It is a lot like the flu. There is no reason to shut down churches, schools, businesses, and the entire economy just because some fearful mobs are afraid of getting sick and dying.

 

[marke]

It may actually turn out to be one of the most effective vaccines that has ever been developed for any virus in the history of medical science.

The Rabies vaccine probably has it beat, its pretty much 100% effective and the Flu vaccine is only 40-60% effective and for only one season!

Note, however, that 100% efficacy isn't necessary. Two doses of the Polio vaccine is only about 90% effective and a person isn't considered fully vaccinated against Polio until they receive four doses over months of time and Polio has been all but completely irradiated worldwide.

In other words, I think you have the "impressed" bar set a bit too high.

Clete

I still do not favor medicines that alter genes rather than medicines that are vaccines. Covid vaccines are not vaccines in the traditional sense of the word. Covid vaccines are gene-altering drugs.

 

[Clete]

OK, I'll bite. You claim scientists have researched the vaccine and found it 99% safe. How many months, years, or decades of research did such a finding take? It could not have taken more than about 6 months at best. That is why I said results are preliminary and establish nothing concrete.

How many times do I have to repeat the fact that time is NOT the relevant factor! Even post infection immunity is TEMPORARY!!!!

The relevant factor is doses given and efficacy rate vs side effects, the number for which could hardly be any better than they are! I mean you couldn't have reasonably wished for a better vaccine than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines! The J&J version isn't nearly as good and even it is better than anyone expected any COVID 19 vaccine to be!

 

[Clete]

I still do not favor medicines that alter genes rather than medicines that are vaccines. Covid vaccines are not vaccines in the traditional sense of the word. Covid vaccines are gene-altering drugs.

It actually isn't a "drug" at all and "gene-altering" is an over statement. The MRNA instructs a particular type of immune cell to create the proteins that are found on the outside of the virus body. These are the proteins that the virus uses to gain access to the cells it infects but by themselves are not toxic and cannot in any way make you sick. Your body does however recognize them as not being welcome visitors and so creates antibodies against those proteins and so when the virus shows up the antibodies attach to these proteins and the virus is unable gain access to your cells and do its own bit of gene-alteration.

The cells that are instructed to create these proteins do not do it forever. Once they've done their thing, the cells break down and go away (i.e. they DO NOT reproduce themselves) and because of the way the MRNA works, there is EXACTLY zero chance of it doing anything that alters a person's actual genome. The MRNA effects one specific kind of immune cell and does so only once and when those cells die its all over with except that your body continues to make the antibodies for some period of time afterward but it has not yet been determined for how long.

I learned all of that (and much more) in less than an hour more than a month ago. Now, admittedly, I am somewhat obsessed with all things COVID and I wouldn't expect most people to spend the time I have looking into this stuff but the point is that the best cure for being frightened by something is to educate yourself about it.

Furthermore, as I have repeatedly pointed out, there have literally been hundreds of millions of doses administered with only the tiniest number of problems. Do you have any idea how many decades it took for them to administer hundreds of millions of doses of the Polio vaccine - a vaccine that is somewhat less effective and that they give up to four doses of to little babies?

I'm telling ya that there just isn't anything to be scared of here.

Clete

 

[Clete]

Our church restricted services for about 6 weeks in early 2020. After that, we opened back up to full capacity and without masks. We also opened our Christian school back up without masks. I got covid after that, which gave me a cough that I had for two weeks before going to the doctor. It turned out that I had covid and pneumonia, but after taking penicillin I was cured of all symptoms 3 days later.

Several members of our church have gotten covid and recovered. It is a lot like the flu. There is no reason to shut down churches, schools, businesses, and the entire economy just because some fearful mobs are afraid of getting sick and dying.

It is a lot like the flu except that it has a death rate as much as four times as high. Of course, the real death rate cannot really be known because the number both of cases and of death have been so completely screwed up but in early 2020 there wasn't anyone who thought the death rate was below 2% which is many times higher than the flu.

Also, there is a very very high chance that you do NOT have any immunity left from your illness. You had it a year ago or more and your symptoms were light which means your viral load was low. This means your body would have stopped making the antibodies relatively quickly. There's virtually no chance at all that it is still producing them.

You could find out for sure probably for free by getting tested. The tests that take a nose swap are useless. Get a blood test and make sure you tell them that you want to know whether you have the antibodies. If you don't have the antibodies, I would encourage you to get the Pfizer vaccine as soon as possible. It will not only protect you but help bring your community closer to herd immunity and to bring this whole fiasco to an end.

Clete

 

[marke]

How many times do I have to repeat the fact that time is NOT the relevant factor! Even post infection immunity is TEMPORARY!!!!

How temporary is post-infection immunity? Six weeks? Six months? Six years? How do we know? Has anyone tracked post-immunity for six years? No. Maybe for six months, the same as the post-vaccine immunity.

 

[marke]

It actually isn't a "drug" at all and "gene-altering" is an over statement. The MRNA instructs a particular type of immune cell to create the proteins that are found on the outside of the virus body. These are the proteins that the virus uses to gain access to the cells it infects but by themselves are not toxic and cannot in any way make you sick. Your body does however recognize them as not being welcome visitors and so creates antibodies against those proteins and so when the virus shows up the antibodies attach to these proteins and the virus is unable gain access to your cells and do its own bit of gene-alteration.

Covid vaccines we are talking about are of the type which do not use any part of the virus in the vaccine. Covid vaccines we are talking about are Messenger RNA vaccines and use genetic alterations to combat the virus. I don't trust gene-altering drugs, especially gene-altering drugs which are developed using fetal tissues from dead babies murdered by abortionists. I will not be taking the gene-altering covid vaccine.

Vaccine Types

There are several different types of vaccines. Each type is designed to teach your immune system how to fight off germs—and the serious diseases they cause.

www.hhs.gov

Vaccine Types
There are several different types of vaccines. Each type is designed to teach your immune system how to fight off certain kinds of germs—and the serious diseases they cause.
When scientists create vaccines, they consider:
How your immune system responds to the germ
Who needs to be vaccinated against the germ
The best technology or approach to create the vaccine
Based on a number of these factors, scientists decide which type of vaccine they will make. There are several types of vaccines, including:
Inactivated vaccines
Live-attenuated vaccines
Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines
Subunit, recombinant, polysaccharide, and conjugate vaccines
Toxoid vaccines
Viral vector vaccines

 

[marke]

It is a lot like the flu except that it has a death rate as much as four times as high. Of course, the real death rate cannot really be known because the number both of cases and of death have been so completely screwed up but in early 2020 there wasn't anyone who thought the death rate was below 2% which is many times higher than the flu.

Also, there is a very very high chance that you do NOT have any immunity left from your illness. You had it a year ago or more and your symptoms were light which means your viral load was low. This means your body would have stopped making the antibodies relatively quickly. There's virtually no chance at all that it is still producing them.

You could find out for sure probably for free by getting tested. The tests that take a nose swap are useless. Get a blood test and make sure you tell them that you want to know whether you have the antibodies. If you don't have the antibodies, I would encourage you to get the Pfizer vaccine as soon as possible. It will not only protect you but help bring your community closer to herd immunity and to bring this whole fiasco to an end.

Clete

You think I may have lost immunity to the virus after having been infected by the virus. That point of view can be referred to as opinion based upon assumptions and faith, but not on science.

 

[Gary K]

It may actually turn out to be one of the most effective vaccines that has ever been developed for any virus in the history of medical science.

The Rabies vaccine probably has it beat, its pretty much 100% effective and the Flu vaccine is only 40-60% effective and for only one season!

Note, however, that 100% efficacy isn't necessary. Two doses of the Polio vaccine is only about 90% effective and a person isn't considered fully vaccinated against Polio until they receive four doses over months of time and Polio has been all but completely irradiated worldwide.

In other words, I think you have the "impressed" bar set a bit too high.

Clete

So, with a product never before used upon human beings, a vaccine developed and released in less than 1/10 to 1/20 of the time of normal vaccine development, without being fully authorized by any government and will not be until the current ongoing world wide expriments on those who are being vaccinated finished in 2022, you're claiming is going to be the safest most effective vaccine in the history of vaccines. Where is your source for this assertion?

Don't you understand that vaccine makers were given complete immunity from any legal liability for their products for any reason because vaccines are inherently unsafe? The vaccine makers told government if they didn't give them that type of legal immunity they would no longer produce vaccines because the liabilities from vaccine injuries would bankrupt them.

I also didn't know that polio had been irradiated. You mind giving a source for that too as your assertion has been proven wrong. Jonas Salk, before his death, actually said he regretted his involvement in the polio vaccine.

 

[Clete]

How temporary is post-infection immunity? Six weeks? Six months? Six years? How do we know? Has anyone tracked post-immunity for six years? No. Maybe for six months, the same as the post-vaccine immunity.

Yes, probably 4 - 6 but in some as long as 8 months. It is perhaps longer in a person is repeatedly exposed to the virus.

Whether you get the immunity from the vaccine or from the actual virus isn't likely to matter because your immune system does give a rip where the invasion force came from, they just want it killed. So long as there's something for it to fight, it will keep making the antibodies but as soon as the antibodies stop getting used for anything then the body eventually calls the all clear and stops producing the antibodies until you're infected (or vaccinated) again.

 

[Clete]

You think I may have lost immunity to the virus after having been infected by the virus. That point of view can be referred to as opinion based upon assumptions and faith, but not on science.

Look, stop just saying stupid things off the top of your head. It's ridiculous and embarrassing.

This took me literally ten seconds to find with a single google search.

How long does COVID 19 immunity last.

 

[Clete]

Covid vaccines we are talking about are of the type which do not use any part of the virus in the vaccine. Covid vaccines we are talking about are Messenger RNA vaccines and use genetic alterations to combat the virus. I don't trust gene-altering drugs, especially gene-altering drugs which are developed using fetal tissues from dead babies murdered by abortionists. I will not be taking the gene-altering covid vaccine.

I already responded to this fear mongering nonsense.

Vaccine Types

There are several different types of vaccines. Each type is designed to teach your immune system how to fight off germs—and the serious diseases they cause.

www.hhs.gov

Vaccine Types
There are several different types of vaccines. Each type is designed to teach your immune system how to fight off certain kinds of germs—and the serious diseases they cause.
When scientists create vaccines, they consider:
How your immune system responds to the germ
Who needs to be vaccinated against the germ
The best technology or approach to create the vaccine
Based on a number of these factors, scientists decide which type of vaccine they will make. There are several types of vaccines, including:
Inactivated vaccines
Live-attenuated vaccines
Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines
Subunit, recombinant, polysaccharide, and conjugate vaccines
Toxoid vaccines
Viral vector vaccines

Irrelevant

 

[marke]

Yes, probably 4 - 6 but in some as long as 8 months. It is perhaps longer in a person is repeatedly exposed to the virus.

Whether you get the immunity from the vaccine or from the actual virus isn't likely to matter because your immune system does give a rip where the invasion force came from, they just want it killed. So long as there's something for it to fight, it will keep making the antibodies but as soon as the antibodies stop getting used for anything then the body eventually calls the all clear and stops producing the antibodies until you're infected (or vaccinated) again.

You provide no scientific evidence to support your opinion about how long covid immunity lasts in those who recover from covid.