Is the Law of Moses good or bad?

[Guyver]

I the whole Bible, and I don't and don't reject any of it.

OK. Then I would like to ask you about the Spirit of Jealousy. I don't know if you've ever had it or not, but according to the Law of Moses there was a way to deal with it that involved torturing women. I guess, since you beleive every part of the bible, you think it's ok to torture women if you get jealous?

Here's how it works. A man has to go away for work for some time. While he is gone, he considers that maybe his wife has slept with another man, and could be impregnated by this...and he would not wish to raise a child that was not his own. So, he takes the woman to the priest to bring "God" in on it. If she has sinned, she will miscarry.....if not, no harm will come to her.

" ‘And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord. 17 The priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 Then the priest shall stand the woman before the Lord, uncover the woman’s head, and put the offering for remembering in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 And the priest shall put her under oath, and say to the woman, “If no man has lain with you, and if you have not gone astray to uncleanness while under your husband’s authority, be free from this bitter water that brings a curse. 20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband’s authority, and if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has lain with you”— 21 then the priest shall put the woman under the oath of the curse, and he shall say to the woman—“the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh [e]rot and your belly swell; 22 and may this water that causes the curse go into your stomach, and make your belly swell and your thigh rot.”

‘Then the woman shall say, “Amen, so be it.”

Numbers Chapter 5

 

[Guyver]

I have golf practice now, I have to go. I will check in on this thread later tonight.

 

[Jacob]

OK. Then I would like to ask you about the Spirit of Jealousy. I don't know if you've ever had it or not, but according to the Law of Moses there was a way to deal with it that involved torturing women. I guess, since you beleive every part of the bible, you think it's ok to torture women if you get jealous?

Here's how it works. A man has to go away for work for some time. While he is gone, he considers that maybe his wife has slept with another man, and could be impregnated by this...and he would not wish to raise a child that was not his own. So, he takes the woman to the priest to bring "God" in on it. If she has sinned, she will miscarry.....if not, no harm will come to her.

" ‘And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord. 17 The priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 Then the priest shall stand the woman before the Lord, uncover the woman’s head, and put the offering for remembering in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 And the priest shall put her under oath, and say to the woman, “If no man has lain with you, and if you have not gone astray to uncleanness while under your husband’s authority, be free from this bitter water that brings a curse. 20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband’s authority, and if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has lain with you”— 21 then the priest shall put the woman under the oath of the curse, and he shall say to the woman—“the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh [e]rot and your belly swell; 22 and may this water that causes the curse go into your stomach, and make your belly swell and your thigh rot.”

‘Then the woman shall say, “Amen, so be it.”

Numbers Chapter 5

I hear that this has nothing to do with miscarriage, but you framed the scriptures with a scenario.

 

[JudgeRightly]

...So, now I understand a couple things.

1. You believe every word in the Bible.

2. You believe it was Jesus who gave the law to Moses.

This is based on your own statements.

So, before I proceed to speak about point #2, I need to ask you another question.

Do you believe that Jesus loves the little children?

Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them.But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, [JESUS]“Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God.Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”[/JESUS]And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them. - Mark 10:13-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark10:13-16&version=NKJV

There's a Christian songs that says Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world; whether yellow black or white, all are precious in his sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world.

Oh....and one more thing....just so we are communicating effectively....would you please tell me what you think love is?

Thank you.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians13:4-7&version=NKJV

 

[Guyver]

Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them.But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, [JESUS]“Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God.Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”[/JESUS]And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them. - Mark 10:13-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark10:13-16&version=NKJV



Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians13:4-7&version=NKJV

You speaka my language. Ain’t that something. Very interesting.

 

[Stripe]

IOW, it is your belief that we are not as God made us then?

God made man perfectly to be in a relationship with Him. Are you perfect?

 

[Guyver]

God made man perfectly to be in a relationship with Him. Are you perfect?

Far from it. But that doesn’t answer the question. I asked you if we are as God made us or not.

If we are not as God made us, then someone other than God made us....isn’t that right?

 

[Stripe]

Far from it. But that doesn’t answer the question. I asked you if we are as God made us or not.

Yeah. Did you read my answer?

If we are not as God made us, then someone other than God made us....isn’t that right?

No. You obviously didn't read my first post to you.

 

[Guyver]

Yeah. Did you read my answer?


No. You obviously didn't read my first post to you.

I didn’t see an answer. The only recent post to me that I saw, you said, “We are fallen.”

I replied for clarification that we are not as God made us according to your theology. I don’t wish to put words into your mouth or speak for you, so I’ll just speak it as I see it.

If a person believes that we are “fallen” then it implies that we are not as God made us. Something went wrong with his plan.

But God is not the kind of “person” - to use a completely inferior word, since God is no person- to fail in any way. Even Jesus spoke to the fact that no one builds something without first making a plan. God would certainly not build the universe without a plan. The precision of the universe, and especially life itself demonstrates that God knew exactly what he was doing and executed it perfectly.

Since God is perfect in every way, he doesn’t make mistakes, therefore; we are as God made us, we are exactly as he intended us to be. To think otherwise indicates God made a mistaken, or got sidetracked by a really powerful enemy that he could not manage.

I can’t see how that logically follows if indeed God is infinite in wisdom, power, and understanding. Nothing gets by him, he doesn’t fail, falter, get taken by surprise or usurped.

Point one.

 

[Guyver]

Point two.

Jesus did not believe that people are “fallen.” He believed in two kinds of people; the just and the unjust. The righteous and the unrighteousness. He said he didn’t come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Therefore, at best....only some people are “fallen” but not everyone - according to Jesus that is. It seems to me that Christians should have a great deal of respect for Jesus beliefs. I mean, he is the honcho....right?

 

[ok doser]

Point two.

Jesus did not believe that people are “fallen.” He believed in two kinds of people; the just and the unjust. The righteous and the unrighteousness. He said he didn’t come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Therefore, at best....only some people are “fallen” but not everyone - according to Jesus that is. It seems to me that Christians should have a great deal of respect for Jesus beliefs. I mean, he is the honcho....right?

your premise is flawed, thus so is your conclusion

 

[Right Divider]

Point two.

Jesus did not believe that people are “fallen.” He believed in two kinds of people; the just and the unjust. The righteous and the unrighteousness. He said he didn’t come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jesus said that everyone was a sinner and needed a savior. That's what "fallen" means.

See Romans 5.

Therefore, at best....only some people are “fallen” but not everyone - according to Jesus that is. It seems to me that Christians should have a great deal of respect for Jesus beliefs. I mean, he is the honcho....right?

We do have a great deal of respect for Jesus' beliefs and you should too.

 

[Guyver]

your premise is flawed, thus so is your conclusion

That would be fine, but you didn't demonstrate that my premise is flawed. It's actually not flawed because Jesus said it. Unless you think Jesus didn't actually say it? My premise is that Jesus himself did not believe in the doctrine of Original Sin. Here is the proof.

1. Righteous means "not fallen."

2. Jesus said people were righteous.

"But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Matt 9:13

"for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it." Matt 13:17

"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." Luke 1:6

Jesus also demonstrated that people are not "fallen" ie - born with the sin of Adam against them, because of what he said about children. He said that little children are children of God and have a place in heaven. That means not-fallen.

"“Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven."

"But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” Matt 19:14

Does this satisfy as proof that my premise is established?

 

[Guyver]

Jesus said that everyone was a sinner and needed a savior. That's what "fallen" means.

See Romans 5.

Did you mean that Paul said that? Jesus never said everyone was a sinner, as I just showed above. Jesus stated that many people are righteous.

 

[Right Divider]

Did you mean that Paul said that? Jesus never said everyone was a sinner, as I just showed above. Jesus stated that many people are righteous.

Sounds like you're a "red letter" kind of guy. The entire Bible was inspired by the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul wrote what the Lord wanted him to write. It is ALL the Word of God.

You're confusing two different kinds of righteousness.

 

[Guyver]

Sounds like you're a "red letter" kind of guy. The entire Bible was inspired by the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul wrote what the Lord wanted him to write. It is ALL the Word of God.

You're confusing two different kinds of righteousness.

I had forgotten the power of religious indoctrination. When one has made up their mind to believe something, there is no changing it. In this case, your religious beliefs allow you to dismiss the words of Jesus, and maybe not even know it.

It’s like the people who believe the earth is flat, there are no facts that can change their mind. I think we’re done here. May peace be with you.

From now on, if I have a point to make in this thread, I’ll just make it.

 

[ok doser]

... In this case, your religious beliefs allow you to dismiss the words of Jesus...

nope, just understand them more fully than you ever can

sorry :idunno:

 

[Guyver]

nope, just understand them more fully than you ever can

sorry :idunno:

No worries. Everyone has different religious beliefs. Everyone.

 

[ok doser]

No worries. Everyone has different religious beliefs. Everyone.

and most of them will only understand what "the narrow gate" means when it's too late

 

[Guyver]

and most of them will only understand what "the narrow gate" means when it's too late

Maybe. Or maybe God is just good and you'll all be surprised.