Doesn't seem that way to me. Perhaps you're reading things into what AB is saying. :think:
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
Doesn't seem that way to me. Perhaps you're reading things into what AB is saying. :think:
Just because you didn't get it.....
I guess that's why JR brought it up to begin with.
Unfortunately, it just doesn't work in reality.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
What else do you suppose it means? If you've fallen out with a friend and subsequently make up then are you reconciled? look up the dictionary definition. Reconciliation sure doesn't mean being separated no matter how bizarre a twist you have to contort the word.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
"Dude", if you weren't so seemingly obsessed with upping your post average then you'd already know that JR has made this argument plenty of times before, that being that "hell" is loving for the sake of those in Heaven who might suffer if the "heathen" were allowed in to usurp it.
You need to keep up.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
google - it's your friend
and wiki has a short page on it - the theological concept of reconciliation
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Oh, he's back to his drink/drugs stuff again?
I would have thought that such fell under the banner of trolling and certainly posts lacking substance...
Yes, and if both agree to be reconciled, there is peace.
Unbelievers haven't agreed to be reconciled, even though it's been done on God's side through the Cross. Therefore, from God's point of view, mankind has been reconciled by the Cross.
Whether man has eternal life, and where he will then spend eternity seems to be where this topic needs to be focused.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
iow, you're rebutting an argument he hasn't made yet because you think he's going to :dizzy:
dude - put down the bong
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
That seems to be the crux in some ways. If everything was "done" at the Cross then wouldn't that include unbelief? Otherwise, that's the one thing that still sends people to "hell" regardless of any sin from lying to murder.
That seems to be what this verse is referring to.
John 16:8-9
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Does reprove equal judgement and an eternity of torment? Thomas didn't believe until he demanded proof of Jesus' resurrection and he was a disciple and I think that's telling. He wasn't condemned for his unbelief even after being around at the time. I'm not saying you go along with "ECT" but if unbelief is the killer then many will miss the mark.
:thumb:
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I keep hoping friendly banter is still allowed.
Friendly banter? What's that? I can't even remember anymore...
Depends on what the mark is, doesn't it?
Matt. 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.