So, you did not think that any part of the rest of his post had any merit, based on the very beginning?
Bright Raven was only disproving the falsehood that Trinity doctrine was not taught or believed before 325 AD. He submitted several quotes further down in his post, which gave positive proof that Trinity doctrine was held and taught by early Christians.
Are you wishing to discuss Catholicism or Trinitarian doctrine?
Yes, the Roman Emperor was pagan, Constantine. Yet, the only contribution he made to Christianity was prohibiting the persecution of Christians, in 325 AD. He was not in fact a Christian at this time; he simply ended the state persecution of Christianity. So, any one attributing doctrinal inception to Emperor Constantine is historically ignorant.
Two things here: Can you point to a pagan religion, with a triune god?
Second, can you provide specific Scripture that points to pagans practicing a triune god, as I am assuming that is why you mention John 17?
Can you provide an exact quote, and reference source?
Because there is no evidence of Roman Emperor Constantine making any declarations regarding doctrine, in actual reality/history.
I am not debating what is plainly written. I do not think that the Letter to Timothy contradicts John's Gospel account, at all. I mentioned all the various specific verses, because each one directly points to a supernatural unity between Jesus and God. John 10:30 is Jesus specifically declaring that they are one. But rather than address this, you just skipped on to Timothy as a proof of your point. Why not address that which Jesus said? Jesus said He and God are one. Without trying to use another author, please provide an explanation for this specific quote.
I believe the word you are looking for is eisegesis. However, Trinity doctrine can specifically be traced back to biblical roots; such as John 10:30. So, it is not "reading threeology into Scripture," rather it is exegesis.
Here is a simple question (I apologize for always asking so many; I use questions as means of making people answer logically): What reason did the Pharisees have as means to crucify Jesus?
So, you did not think that any part of the rest of his post had any merit, based on the very beginning?
For the point he was making, no, no merit at all, for he was not answering the OP, the OP is about "official doctrine" as least as the New Catholic Encyclopedia" phrased it. If BR wants to argue with the Roman Catholics and their theology and its writings, he should take it up with them.
Bright Raven was only disproving the falsehood that Trinity doctrine was not taught or believed before 325 AD. He submitted several quotes further down in his post, which gave positive proof that Trinity doctrine was held and taught by early Christians.
Yes, that is what BR pointed out but as is clear and as I stated, he is not answering the OP regarding "official doctrine"
Two things here: Can you point to a pagan religion, with a triune god?
Yes
Second, can you provide specific Scripture that points to pagans practicing a triune god, as I am assuming that is why you mention John 17?
No, but history does indicate that. Likewise the point of Deuteronomy 6:1-4
Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
Clearly, the Lord our God is one Lord.
Why would God point that out?
Because many of the pagan religions and gods were in sets of three. Triune depending on the definition you might prefer.
Note the following phrase "
his statutes and
his commandments"
It does not say "their". Why not? because the Lord our God is one Lord, not a multiplicity of lords or gods
Can you provide an exact quote, and reference source?
Yes.
Because there is no evidence of Roman Emperor Constantine making any declarations regarding doctrine, in actual reality/history.
Well, then BR should take up the argument that the RC encyclopedia is in error instead of going off on some tangent.
I am not debating what is plainly written. I do not think that the Letter to Timothy contradicts John's Gospel account, at all. I mentioned all the various specific verses, because each one directly points to a supernatural unity between Jesus and God. John 10:30 is Jesus specifically declaring that they are one. But rather than address this, you just skipped on to Timothy as a proof of your point. Why not address that which Jesus said? Jesus said He and God are one. Without trying to use another author, please provide an explanation for this specific quote.
Of course there is a supernatural unity between God and His son.
God is spirit and He is the Father of his human son, who was begotten by God.
The son did not do his own will but always did the Father's will, God's will, not his own.
When God told him to raise someone from the dead, Jesus Christ did the Father's will and did that supernatural miracle that caused the dead to rise up.
When God told Jesus to feed the five thousand with a handful of food, Jesus Christ obeyed and did the supernatural act of feeding the five thousand with a handful of food
When Jesus Christ was asked if he could cast out the devil in the man's son in Mark 9, Jesus Christ obeyed not the father of the son who was possessed but his Heavenly Father's instruction to do so
Jesus Christ did not do man's will, not even his own will, but always did the Father's will
He did my Heavenly Father's will, and I presume your Heavenly Father's will,
He did not do man's will although it may seem like he did from a shallow reading, but always did the Father's will,
That is a supernatural oneness, unity with the Father that we are supposed to and can have as well
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
We can and should do the same works that Jesus Christ did and greater, including having that supernatural oneness with the God and Father of the lord Jesus Christ who is our God and Father.
Here is a simple question (I apologize for always asking so many; I use questions as means of making people answer logically): What reason did the Pharisees have as means to crucify Jesus?
They didn't like his. He contradicted them by teaching scripture.
Even Pilate could see that they wanted him dead because of envy.
Wow, you have much to learn.
Please expound on your statement,
However, Trinity doctrine can specifically be traced back to biblical roots; such as John 10:30.
John 10:30
I and my Father are one.
Please show me where "trinity, three in one, three, the Holy Spirit, Godman, fully God/fully man, God the Son" or any of the other false titles you give your threeeology appear in that verse
What does John 10:30 say?
a. I and my Father are God
b. I and my Father are the two parts of the trinity that are God, but since I did not mention the Holy Spirit clearly the Holy Spirit is not a part of this oneness that the Father and I enjoy
c. I and my Father believe in the trinity even though I or is it me and my Father aren't smart to have that word in our/my? vocabulary.
d. I and my Father are one
Your threeology does not even bother reading scripture for what it says
