Is Faith Without Works Dead?

[Lon]

Yes, but it's not the ability to bear good fruit, rather it's the impetus to gain due to the fear of death versus the recognition of life ahead because of the power of the Spirit as an earnest of the life to come.

Not quite following this. Would appreciate a paragraph.

 

[Derf]

Not quite following this. Would appreciate a paragraph.

Will try soon. Ping me if you don't see it within a couple days.

 

[oatmeal]

Is Faith Without Works Dead?​

https://graceambassadors.com/salvation/is-faith-without-works-dead

Justin Johnson

The Bible defines faith as the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). It is undeniable that faith without substance is no faith at all, but merely a false hope.

However, those who do not rightly divide the Scripture often are plagued with a misunderstanding of the separate faiths that have been offered throughout dispensations. It is a misconception to think that the substance of faith remains the same for every person and group in the Bible.

The Just Shall Live by Faith

Scripture records that the just in every age shall live by faith, and yet the substance or content of that faith changes as it is revealed.


It is an unchangeable principle of God that the righteous, in any age, must live by faith, and operate according to the obedience of that faith (Acts 6:7, Romans 1:5).


However, we must recognize the dispensational changes in the substance of that faith as it is revealed from God. Noah had faith in a flood and salvation by an ark. Moses had faith in God who would deliver them from Egypt, and salvation from enemy bondage.

The Hope of Israel

It is clearly stated in the opening verse of James, that he writes to the ‘twelve tribes’ and ‘my brethren’, who were Israelites, scattered by the persecution of unbelieving Israel.

Writing to the twelve tribes, James writes concerning the faith and hope of Israel during the Pentecostal period. It is during this time that the gospel of the kingdom was preached by Peter who proclaimed the ‘last days’ before Christ’s return (Acts 2:16-17, 3:19-21).

Instead of having a hope based upon the preaching of the cross, Israel’s hope was in the salvation offered by the coming Holy One and promised kingdom (Luke 1:68-75). It was this information that Peter presented for acceptance by faith.


Along with believing Jesus to be the Holy One, Peter called upon Israel to repent and perform the works necessary to exhibit their repentance according to what Jesus had taught.


A Faith That Produces Works

In order to enter the kingdom, Jesus taught that Israel must be righteous. In fact, they must be perfect ‘even as your Father in heaven is perfect’ (Matthew 5:48).

If a believer was to have faith in the coming kingdom with Jesus as its Messiah, then they would of necessity be obliged to perform the works of the law as obedience to that faith.

The substance of the faith was entering the coming kingdom with Jesus as Messiah. The obedience to that faith would naturally be performing works required to enter the kingdom, and be admitted into Jesus’ kingdom.


When faith was obeyed by these Jewish believers, they would exhibit the works required by their faith. The substance of their faith was obedience to the law, even the new covenant, as Jesus, the Holy One, both taught and exemplified (Matthew 5:20, 8:4, 23:2-3).

A Dead Faith

If the substance of your faith was the coming kingdom, which required a righteous performance of works for admission, then you could evaluate a person’s faith by their obedience to perform works.


The faith of these Jewish believers at Pentecost demanded the obedience of works. Otherwise, the substance of their faith was not alive – it was dead!

Only someone who did not have faith of a coming kingdom, or did not want to enter the coming kingdom would deny necessary works.

James reasons that a man reaches justification, which is the proof of salvation, through the necessary works.


Another Hope, Another Faith

The just will live by faith. Until the revelation of the mystery, the substance of faith always included God’s involvement with the nation Israel, its promised kingdom, and its associated covenants.

It was not until Paul that salvation was offered by grace through faith alone apart from any special nation, kingdom requirements, or covenant stipulations (Romans 4:5, Eph 2:8-9, Romans 11:6, Eph 2:12).

Paul offered a hope not based upon a promised earthly kingdom of peace and righteous rule, but a hope of salvation found within the preaching of the cross (Eph 2:7, Romans 5:2-4).

The saving faith we are taught includes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ who was delivered for our offences and raised again for our free justification (Romans 4:25).

We are given free justification by grace apart from any meritorious work of our own (Romans 3:24).

Contained in this further revelation which was not revealed to Peter, James, or John prior to Paul was that our faith is not in a covenantal law, which required performance, but in the death of Jesus Christ for our sins.


The Obedience of Faith

The substance of our faith is the atoning work of Christ on the cross in our place (Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:21-26).

Unique to this dispensation of emphatic grace, the obedience to this faith requires no works at all!


Instead of evaluating our faith based upon performance, our faith is evaluated based on Christ’s performance in our place, which was sufficient for every man! Praise God!

It was when we were weak, and given up by God as enemies, Christ died for us:


Dead Faith in the Dispensation of Grace

Citing James 2:14-26, teachers seek to justify a performance-based evaluation of ‘true’ faith today in the dispensation of grace. Yet, unknowingly, they rob people of the benefits the righteousness of God which only comes freely by faith in Christ (Romans 3:22-24, 5:2).

In order for a faith to be dead in this dispensation, the substance of their faith must be inactive. That is, if our faith is in Jesus Christ’s work on the cross, then a dead faith would be like preaching a dead Jesus who could not perform that which he promised (Romans 4:19-21).

Contrariwise, any person who has faith in the cross of Christ has the full assurance of salvation because God is able to perform that which we could not – a proper atonement of our sins.

Our faith can only be annulled or dead if the work of Christ was annulled or insufficient. Impossible!

Do not be robbed of the glorious grace of God by a lack of rightly dividing the Scriptures. It is the precious truth of the efficacious atoning blood of Jesus that is the focus and climax of the gospel!

Whereas James taught a faith that required works in order to be ‘perfect’, we are given a perfect position by our faith in Christ alone! Amen and Amen. (2 Cor 5:21, Phil 3:12)

Published: September 21, 2009
Last Modified: June 6, 2023

To receive anything from God, specifically, God's promises, we must put forth some effort. That is our part of the promise, we must do our part. God will do his part, when we believe to do our part.

For instance, Matthew 6:33 where God promises that "all these things shall be added to you" What is our part, our responsibility?

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

We must seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. Seeking with the intention of finding. That takes work, it takes some kind of work to believe.

God will do the "heavy lifting" if we do our part.

Exodus 14:

13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.

14 The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.

15 And the Lord said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward:
de it:
16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.


The requirement on Moses' part was to

16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it:...

Moses did not grab a bucket and start removing water. God did that with a east wind that blew all night.

Moses' work, his believing was miniscule compared to what the result was, yet God requires we do our part

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Our work, our believing to receive, (not earn) the gift (gifts are not earned, otherwise they would be wages) of salvation is miniscule compared to the blessing of the gift of salvation.

Our believing is demonstrated by our works. We can believe without anyone seeing it, except God. When people see our works line up with scripture, they are informed that we are believing.

Believing, even if it only means changing our mind, is works.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Renewing our mind is basically internal works, but in order for us to see the results in our lifestyle, we must act accordingly

 

[Right Divider]

@oatmeal You can quote scripture for Israel until you're blue in the face, they do NOT apply to the body of Christ.

Right division solves all of your problems.

 

[oatmeal]

@oatmeal You can quote scripture for Israel until you're blue in the face, they do NOT apply to the body of Christ.

Right division solves all of your problems.

@oatmeal You can quote scripture for Israel until you're blue in the face, they do NOT apply to the body of Christ.

Right division solves all of your probl

@oatmeal You can quote scripture for Israel until you're blue in the face, they do NOT apply to the body of Christ.

Right division solves all of your problems

So, could you clarify your objection? Has the basic concept changed at all?

 

[oatmeal]

@oatmeal You can quote scripture for Israel until you're blue in the face, they do NOT apply to the body of Christ.

Right division solves all of your problems.

Obeying God does not apply to the body of Christ?

Loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength does not apply to the body of Christ?

Not murdering people does not apply to the body of Christ?

Fleeing idol worship does not apply to the body of Christ?

You should clarify your position much, much more

 

[Right Divider]

So, could you clarify your objection? Has the basic concept changed at all?

Matthew 6:33 (among other scriptures) does NOT apply to the body of Christ.

The "you" in that verse does not include the body of Christ.

Until you respect the fact that Jesus came ONLY to the nation of Israel during His earthly ministry, you will continue to be confused.

Matt 15:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ​

​

John 20:21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(20:21) Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. ​

​

Matt 10:5-6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ​

 

[Nick M]

Don't feel bad. Wes Huff doesn't study the scripture either. I didn't know who he was before the social media destruction he unleashed. But it seems he is another that reads about the Bible, but doesn't study the actual content. And he is definitely an expert on early languages. But he doesn't study the content itself.

 

[oatmeal]

Matthew 6:33 (among other scriptures) does NOT apply to the body of Christ.

The "you" in that verse does not include the body of Christ.

Until you respect the fact that Jesus came ONLY to the nation of Israel during His earthly ministry, you will continue to be confused.

Matt 15:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ​

​

John 20:21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(20:21) Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. ​

​

Matt 10:5-6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ​

Are you suggesting that we, as the body of Christ do not have to put God first? That we can serve idols and God is ok with that?

Is that what you are saying?

Are you suggesting that we do not have to love God or our neighbors?

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Is not a fellow member in the body of Christ a neighbor?

Romans 13:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Is it still wrong to commit adultery or murder or to steal or to bear false witness? Yes it is.

For example. Ephesians 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

or Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

We are clearly still expected to love our neighbor, althought, admittedly, who our neighbor is has changed from Israel of the gospels to our fellow members in the body of Christ.

You supplied some great verses. But as I have been taught and it makes 100% sense to me, we must look at truths outside of this period of grace throught the filter of the church epistles.

I have clearly shown that not all previous laws are now null and void.

d

 

[Right Divider]

Are you suggesting that we, as the body of Christ do not have to put God first?

What kind of moronic question is that?

That we can serve idols and God is ok with that?

Again, idiotic to say the least.

<cut much more idiocy>

I have clearly shown that not all previous laws are now null and void.

d

We, the body of Christ, are not under the law.

Rom 6:14 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. ​

You are making the same false accusations that they made of Paul back in his day.

Rom 6:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. ​

 

[Derf]

What kind of moronic question is that?

Again, idiotic to say the least.

<cut much more idiocy>


We, the body of Christ, are not under the law.

Rom 6:14 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. ​

You are making the same false accusations that they made of Paul back in his day.

Rom 6:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. ​

So you're saying God forbids that we sin? Sounds like a commandment.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So you're saying God forbids that we sin? Sounds like a commandment.

Not quite.

"God forbid" that we sin BECAUSE we are under the law.

We should love God, and our neighbors, not because we are under some sort of law, because love fulfills the law.

 

[Derf]

Not quite.

"God forbid" that we sin BECAUSE we are under the law.

Do I understando you correctly? The forbadence is only to those under the law?

We should love God, and our neighbors, not because we are under some sort of law, because love fulfills the law.

Yes, agreed. Why would you be interested in fulfilling the law?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Do I understand you correctly? The forbadence is only to those under the law?

Yes, agreed. Why would you be interested in fulfilling the law?

I think I typo'd. Pretty sure I was distracted by something while I was writing my reply.

Allow me to correct and clarify.

So you're saying God forbids that we sin? Sounds like a commandment.

Not quite.

"God forbid" that we sin BECAUSE we are not under the law but under grace.

We should love God, and our neighbors, not because we are under some sort of law, but because love is good.

In other words, we shouldn't sin, intentionally, just because we are under grace, since we know that grace covers our sin.

But if we do sin, our sin is covered by grace. Therefore, "don't sin" isn't a commandment, but rather a warning to those who are under grace.

 

[Clete]

Do I understando you correctly? The forbadence is only to those under the law?

What is forbidden is that we place ourselves under the law. Just as Adam was forbidden to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, so we are forbidden to seek righteousness via the law.

Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.​

​

Parallels Between the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the Law of Moses

1. Reveals Good and Evil

• The Tree: “Tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Genesis 2:9)
• The Law: “By the law is the knowledge of sin” (Romans 3:20)

2. Ministry Death

• The Tree: “In the day you eat of it you shall surely die” (Genesis 2:17)
• The Law: “The letter kills” (2 Corinthians 3:6); “ministry of death” (2 Corinthians 3:7)

3. Good in Itself, Yet Condemning

• The Tree: “Good for food, pleasant to the eyes, desirable...” (Genesis 3:6)
• The Law: “The law is holy... and good” (Romans 7:12), yet it brought wrath (Romans 4:15)

4. Awakens Desire and Rebellion

• The Tree: Eve saw it as “desirable to make one wise” (Genesis 3:6)
• The Law: “Sin... produced in me all manner of evil desire” (Romans 7:8)

5. Requires Faith to Avoid or Fulfill

• The Tree: Obedience required trusting God's word
• The Law: Righteousness required faith, ultimately in Christ (Galatians 3:24)

6. Exposes Self-Reliance

• The Tree: “You will be like God” (Genesis 3:5) – temptation to autonomy
• The Law: Works-based righteousness is self-reliance (Galatians 3:10–12)

7. Christ is the Remedy

• The Tree: Adam's failure brought death; Christ, the last Adam, brings life (1 Corinthians 15:22, 45)
• The Law: “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness” (Romans 10:4)

In short, the Law is the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and we, through Grace, have been restored to Adam's prefallen condition in so far as he was forbidden to partake of The Tree, so we are forbidden to partake of the law.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.​

​

7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.​

​

11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. 12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!​

​

13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!​

​

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.​

 

[Bladerunner]

To receive anything from God, specifically, God's promises, we must put forth some effort. That is our part of the promise, we must do our part. God will do his part, when we believe to do our part.

For instance, Matthew 6:33 where God promises that "all these things shall be added to you" What is our part, our responsibility?

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

We must seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. Seeking with the intention of finding. That takes work, it takes some kind of work to believe.

God will do the "heavy lifting" if we do our part.

Exodus 14:

13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.

14 The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.

15 And the Lord said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward:
de it:
16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.


The requirement on Moses' part was to

16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it:...

Moses did not grab a bucket and start removing water. God did that with a east wind that blew all night.

Moses' work, his believing was miniscule compared to what the result was, yet God requires we do our part

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Our work, our believing to receive, (not earn) the gift (gifts are not earned, otherwise they would be wages) of salvation is miniscule compared to the blessing of the gift of salvation.

Our believing is demonstrated by our works. We can believe without anyone seeing it, except God. When people see our works line up with scripture, they are informed that we are believing.

Believing, even if it only means changing our mind, is works.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Renewing our mind is basically internal works, but in order for us to see the results in our lifestyle, we must act accordingly

In other words, God (the Father), the Son and the Holy Spirit does every thing that is necessary to bring salvation to each person 'believing', yet it is still up to man with that 1% free will to determine if He want to live with GOD for an eternity or NOT. Thus GOD has no power over death, since He has to wait for Man to make the final decision.

Have a great day, my friend.

 

[Right Divider]

In other words, God (the Father), the Son and the Holy Spirit does every thing that is necessary to bring salvation to each person 'believing', yet it is still up to man with that 1% free will to determine if He want to live with GOD for an eternity or NOT. Thus GOD has no power over death, since He has to wait for Man to make the final decision.

You are an extremely confused person.

 

[Derf]

In other words, God (the Father), the Son and the Holy Spirit does every thing that is necessary to bring salvation to each person 'believing', yet it is still up to man with that 1% free will to determine if He want to live with GOD for an eternity or NOT. Thus GOD has no power over death, since He has to wait for Man to make the final decision.

Have a great day, my friend.

What is a 1% free will?? Are you saying that God makes 99 out of every 100 choices for us?

 

[Derf]

I think I typo'd. Pretty sure I was distracted by something while I was writing my reply.

Allow me to correct and clarify.



Not quite.

"God forbid" that we sin BECAUSE we are not under the law but under grace.

We should love God, and our neighbors, not because we are under some sort of law, but because love is good.

In other words, we shouldn't sin, intentionally, just because we are under grace, since we know that grace covers our sin.

But if we do sin, our sin is covered by grace. Therefore, "don't sin" isn't a commandment, but rather a warning to those who are under grace.

But I don't see why a warning doesn't convey a command, just like "or you will die" was a warning, where God forbade them to eat of the tree.

 

[JudgeRightly]

But I don't see why a warning doesn't convey a command, just like "or you will die" was a warning, where God forbade them to eat of the tree.

There's no law against falling off a cliff. Yet a sign warning people of the cliff's edge is a good thing to do.