Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Yes, she's been very candid about it.
Is eternal suffering literal?
- Thread starter Keiw1
- Start date
Yes, she's been very candid about it.
Derf
Well-known member
Once more I let a good conversation go stale.
Two of the references, and possibly all 3, seem to be about Jews and relate to non-Jews. The first was the story of the Centurion's sick servant:
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [Mat 8:12 KJV]
The second is the story of the marriage feast where the original invitees (Jews) were not interested in coming, so the king invited those from the highways and byways (which could include Gentiles, as well as sinners and publicans).
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [Mat 22:13 KJV]
The last was the story of the talents, where the unfaithful servant who hid his talent in the ground. If the servants are the Jews, the increase might include Gentiles (this is the one where the Gentile connection is weaker, but the very next section in the same chapter talks about Jesus judging the nations, which is usually translated 'Gentiles'.
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [Mat 25:30 KJV]
All these are talking about the Kingdom of Heaven. The idea, then, is that the outer darkness is outside the kingdom, represented by light (truth), and the weeping and gnashing of teeth is the jealousy of the Jews when Gentiles are welcomed in and they find themselves on the outside. Read through those three passagesand see what you think.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: [Mat 25:41 KJV]
There are 3 passages using the phrase, all in Matthew. This normally would trigger comments about it being only for Jews. Matthew especially seems geared for Jews, and I've heard some suggest it was written in Hebrew and translated into Greek (evidence has been offered about how the way the Greek reads different from how an original text would be constructed).
Two of the references, and possibly all 3, seem to be about Jews and relate to non-Jews. The first was the story of the Centurion's sick servant:
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [Mat 8:12 KJV]
The second is the story of the marriage feast where the original invitees (Jews) were not interested in coming, so the king invited those from the highways and byways (which could include Gentiles, as well as sinners and publicans).
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [Mat 22:13 KJV]
The last was the story of the talents, where the unfaithful servant who hid his talent in the ground. If the servants are the Jews, the increase might include Gentiles (this is the one where the Gentile connection is weaker, but the very next section in the same chapter talks about Jesus judging the nations, which is usually translated 'Gentiles'.
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [Mat 25:30 KJV]
All these are talking about the Kingdom of Heaven. The idea, then, is that the outer darkness is outside the kingdom, represented by light (truth), and the weeping and gnashing of teeth is the jealousy of the Jews when Gentiles are welcomed in and they find themselves on the outside. Read through those three passagesand see what you think.
Eternal fire was, but not Sheol, since even you don't believe that all people that died before Christ were in everlasting fire, but they were in Sheol. Hades (the NT word for Sheol) is thrown into the lake of fire in Rev 20, so it doesn't make sense to say that Sheol is the same as everlasting fire.Specifically this part, but the verses immediately surrounding it as well.
Therefore Sheol has enlarged itself
And opened its mouth beyond measure;
Their glory and their multitude and their pomp,
And he who is jubilant, shall descend into it.
Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 5:14 - New King James Version
Therefore Sheol has enlarged itself And opened its mouth beyond measure; Their glory and their multitude and their pomp, And he who is jubilant, shall descend into it.www.biblegateway.com
Sheol is enlarged because it was never intended for men to be cast into it.
It was made for the devil and his followers.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: [Mat 25:41 KJV]
Which sounds like the grave, or under the earth. Sheol is often translated as 'grave'. Most of the passages that mention sheol make plenty of sense if you translate it grave.
I don't know of the passage(s) in Isaiah about 2 compartments. Can you find them for me? As far as I know, the only passage that supports the two-compartment model of Sheol is the story of the rich man and Lazarus, which is also the only mention of Abraham's bosom in the whole bible.
Which works just as well with 'grave', and points to our real hope--the resurrection.
That's the standard story, but it has holes.
I'll try to listen to it soon.
Derf
Well-known member
I forgot to check the link first. I can't access, as I don't have nor want a Facebook account.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Sounded like she said "to the god of sound" to me, but hey, even if you're stuck on Azel...
However you want to hear it, don't try and add two extra syllables to it to make it something she didn't say. That would be lower than low.
However you want to hear it, don't try and add two extra syllables to it to make it something she didn't say. That would be lower than low.
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