I'm here to discuss things to find out truth. I hope to provide truth as well, when I can. Thus, I am here to debate and not just to preach without anyone questioning my doctrine. If you are only here to preach, you shouldn't stick around. Your doctrine should be accountable to God's word, like mine or anyone else's.
I'm here to share my ideas. If anyone wants to discuss an issue I will read and give my best for a response. I just don't want to waste time arguing when people don't like my ideas. They can take or leave them. If you are not interested then just leave them.
If so, then man ceased being a spirit before Gen 2, and became merely a lifeless body made of clay.
Genesis 2:7 KJV — And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, ...
Oh not at all! The spirit of mankind was just the beginning. Yet, God put that spirit into a living body for a huge purpose! Yes, I say the body had a measure of life in it before the living spirit was breathed into it. Why do I say this? It has to do with "Water." If
Ground is considered to be
the elements of creation from which man's physical body was formed then what might be the symbolism for "Water" according to God's Word. Well, Jesus explained it to a woman at a well. They discussed water [H2O]... but she first thought of H2O which she needed to sustain her physical life, but Jesus had something else in mind. He had eternal water. Water where she would never thirst again. Eternal life. He could give her another measure of life to save her for his eternal kingdom. Do a study of Genesis 2. You will read where God caused
a mist to come upon the ground before he formed Adam's Body. Just enough life to sustain it as he was about to breathe Adam into it. You see it is God who sustains life whether in the body or in our spiritual essence.
Okay what is the content of a spiritual breath? According to scripture it would be wind and water. Both these terms are used to talk about spiritual matters from God. Of course, there is also something called tongues of fire but that was about power from God to glorify Jesus did not happen in Genesis 2. Only Jesus, the second Adam, was was given all power and all things of the Spirit without measure.
That was God's breath that was joined to the lifeless man that together became a living soul:
Genesis 2:7 KJV — And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Again saying: The elements may have started as dust but God added a mist - a measure of life to it before he created Adam's body. The breath contained moisture and wind... but pointing to a living spirit. It was it was the point when the living body and the living male / female spirit joined that mankind became a living soul. Did you know that God has a living soul? I know what this means to me. What does it mean to you?
The spirit/breath that God breathed into Adam was retrieved when Adam died.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV — Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
I agree, but will add: retrieved and stored. Yes, the ground started out as dust ... for scripture says - from dust it came and to dust it will return. That means a dead physical body has not life in it to sustain it. Yet, I still think at this time that the life which was in it before death does return to the ONE who is life and the giver of life. I believe that nothing is ever lost from God's essence for he is eternal. He he wishes to raise a body of bones to life he can.
I think He was:
1 Corinthians 15:4 KJV — And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
If you are saying God was not buried, then you are saying either that "he" in that passage refers to someone other than Jesus or that Jesus was not God, in which case it's a different conversation.
I never knew I said or insinuated anything like that. If I misled anyone I take it back. I do not believe this. Funny I had someone quibble over the word buried. Some sort of nuance between entombed versus buried. Just to clear things up: I believe Jesus died physically with all suffering and pain a human would feel and was buried in a tomb. I believe in the resurrection of Jesus and his ascension to the Father. My Savior lives and has gone to provide a place for us.
I think that passage is better understood as metaphorical, since they are "resting", which is euphemistic of death. If dead, then they are granted white robes (metaphor for purity) for use when they are raised.
For believers I think our robes of white are only for the saintly time of waiting after our physical death. At the resurrection we will receive a new glorified body. Just as Jesus came back in a body that could walk through wall and such so will we receive a body like we have never known as a mortal. That resurrected body will be glorified according to the works we have done while in our mortal bodies. I think this is just one of our rewards promised for that time. If a body has disintegrated of has been eaten by fish how can God raise it and glorify it? Well, he is God and with Him all things are possible. I look at our dusty bodies of the ground as books or recordings. One day the books will be opened and read and awards given. Mine is a mess. Thank you Jesus for being my intercessor.
Such depictions fit well with the lake of fire, which is a place that follows both resurrection and judgment.
I agree. A time when death and hell are thrown in the Lake of fire with lost souls, and Satan. The beast and false prophet is already there by that time.
"Spirit". Let's be precise while we work to figure this out.
"People"? Or "spirits"? Spirits might well be demons, but applying it to people is not as well supported, at least without reading our presuppositions into the text.
Spirits do not equal demons.
Spirits is a broad noun talking about many sentient living beings. To most people this includes mankind and angels. I happen to believe that angels, who followed Satan, became the demons. Do you know that in Gen. 3 Satan, and it seems his followers too, were given the right to partake of the ground for the rest of their lives. Doesn't your curiosity wonder things like this: Could this be the reason that they have the permission to indwell the weak bodies of ground belonging to mortal human beings ? Might this be why Satan argued with an angel over the right to possess the body of Moses? He knew Moses was a sinner and felt he had a right to possess/partake of the body for the rest of its life? I suggest: So goes the un-resurrected lifeless body of sinful man so goes the spirit of a man along with Satan into the Lake of Fire.
Supposition. All we know about them is that they were "spirits" in prison at the time in question.
And how do you know this? He knew about "sin", so he must have had some understanding of what a sin was.
Which they could have shared with those around them as preachers of righteousness.
2 Peter 2:5 KJV — And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
All I know it that God was in charge of judgement in the days of Noah when he chose to destroy mankind - except for eight. Those LOST spiritual entities were stored somehow somewhere according to God's pleasure. Scripture calls it "prison." Jesus went there to share the good news and they are still there for it was hoped that after that they would live according to the truth of a Savior until the TIME CAME. I have to ask: might this group be the only group given a second chance???? I don't know but curious.
If He wasn't dead, how could He rise from the dead? "Spiritual death" is a theological term that includes presuppositions about death that aren't necessarily what the Bible teaches.
I believe Jesus, a son of man, was tempted in every way as a human. I believe he suffered and physically died. I believe he took up/refurrecetd his mortal body and presented it to heaven. I believe he will come again.
Jesus is distinct from the "Spirit of God".
God the Father gave all things of the spirit unto Jesus without measuring it out as it was done with humans. Without measure means that he was equal with God. John 3:34-35. Now this will open another topic so I plan to be brief: Spiritually Jesus was equal to God. He was even ONE with the Father. Now, what does one with the Father mean? Well, here goes: God the Father was Spiritually one with God the Spirit,but the Spirit gave him a living bodily form. In Genesis it was called "his image, his likeness." The invisible Spirit of God could come within his creations, be seen, talk and walk among them.
God, as the Father had an eternal living bodily form! Adam and woman hid from his presence.
Jesus was also, Emmanuel, God among mortals again, but this time as one of them. God used his one and only glorious image a second time to come within creation, but this time on a mission of salvation from the human affliction. This time God's living image was totally mortal. Jesus may have been all God spiritually as God was willing to sustain the transfer of knowledge ... for Jesus did only what God told him to do and say ... but he was definitely a mortal when it came to his body.
Can you quote that verse for me? I don't recognize it.
I think you were referring to my sharing I Peter 3:19-20
It's hard to speak when you're dead.
Perhaps, but every place of separation is not called "grave". I used to work in a cubicle. Those half walls created a place of separation from other people/places. Nobody ever called it a grave.
God prepared a prison to keep His saints in?
Not "living". if they are "living" then they aren't dead. But we're talking about dead people, aren't we?
I'm not seeing much disagreement about this part.
You are clear. Thanks for your thoughts on it.
Thank you. I think we are very close on this matter.
