Is Calvinism Wrong?

Clete

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Knight suggested that someone should do a thread on this. Here it is.

Jesus said, "Beware of men" Matthew 10:17. It is from men that false doctrines come. In the case of Calvinism it was John Calvin. All false religions are founded by men and are man centered. The purpose of religion whether it be the Calvinist religion, the Catholic religion, or whatever religion is to lead you away from the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 4:4, into another Gospel, that is not the Gospel, Galatians 1:6-8.

The Calvinist is not interested in what God has done for him in Jesus Christ. The Calvinist is mainly pre-occupied in whether or not he has been predestinated to eternal life. He will search out the scriptures that he believes will support that he has been predestinated. It is all about him and is very subjective.

The glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ is not subjective, it is objective (out side of us). We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. The Gospel took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born, The Gospel is about how God in the person of Jesus Christ has reconciled us and the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. If God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, then no one needs to be predestinated. The effects of this Gospel are very subjective when they are embraced and believed upon. All that believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ are given the Holy Spirit and are born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23. The granting of the Holy Spirit is how God honors ones faith in his Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:13.

Calvinist, Catholics and other religions do not believe the life changing Gospel of Jesus Christ. They are outside of the faith and are under the judgment of God.

I can pretty much agree with this whole post except for that last line, which I highlighted in blue.

Two questions:

1. Just exactly what is "the gospel"? What must one do to be saved?

2. What part of the gospel do you think that Calvinists and Catholics reject to the point that they are "outside the faith"?

Clete
 

Clete

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No one can ever know what the Gospel is by reading the Bible. The only way that anyone can know and understand the Gospel is by the Holy Spirit.

Paul disagrees and does so by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, by the way...

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Clete
 

Clete

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The Gospel is in the Bible, but it cannot be understood without the Holy Spirit, nor can many other spiritual things be understood without the leading of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is a spiritual book and was written by men that were indwelt with the Holy Spirit. However, the Bible does not take the place of the Holy Spirit. There are many things in the Bible that cannot be understood by the natural man, 1 Corinthians 1:14. This is one reason why there is so much contention on this Forum.

This is an EXTREMELY Calvinistic thing to say, Robert.

It isn't true.

There are perhaps some things, some truths, in the bible that require God's help to discover and to understand but the gospel isn't one of them.

Clete
 

Robert Pate

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Banned
I can pretty much agree with this whole post except for that last line, which I highlighted in blue.

Two questions:

1. Just exactly what is "the gospel"? What must one do to be saved?

2. What part of the gospel do you think that Calvinists and Catholics reject to the point that they are "outside the faith"?

Clete


Clete asks, "What is the Gospel?"

The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf.

In our name and on our behalf Jesus fulfilled all of the demands of God's Holy Law. The law demands perfection. Jesus is the only one that could offer to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to God's Holy Law. Jesus is our righteousness, we don't have any because we are sinners, Romans 3:10. We are totally and completely dependent upon the righteousness of Christ for our salvation.

In our name and on our behalf Jesus has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Proof that Jesus fulfilled the law and atoned for our sins is that God raised Jesus from the dead and has seated him at his own right hand as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. When God accepted Jesus into heaven, we were accepted in him. We can now stand before God's Holy Court as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

This is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Calvinist, Catholics and many others reject this Gospel and in doing so place themselves under condemnation and judgment. Salvation is still by grace through faith, no faith, no salvation.
 

Right Divider

Body part
The reason that the Holy Spirit is given is so that we do not become bibleist. Jesus never told us to follow a book. The Pharisees were followers of the book. Everything that they did was according to the book. Christians are to be led by the Spirit, not the book. The Holy Spirit has revealed to me that Jesus was the new Adam, Romans 5:15-19. If you don't see it that way that's your problem.
That must be why Paul told us to study the book. :dizzy:
That must be why the Bereans were commended for looking in the book :juggle:

That must be why Jesus constantly quoted from the book. :freak:
 

Robert Pate

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That must be why Paul told us to study the book. :dizzy:
That must be why the Bereans were commended for looking in the book :juggle:

That must be why Jesus constantly quoted from the book. :freak:

The sole purpose of the Bible is to reveal Jesus Christ and his Gospel. It is not a Christian Torah. Jesus was a teacher of the law, this is why he quoted Old Testament scripture. The law does not save nor can it justify. The purpose of the law is to condemn, Romans 3:19, 20. Paul said that we are to live by the Spirit and not the law, Galatians 5:18. To live by the Spirit is to live by the Gospel. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We stand complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. No religion needed. Religion, such as Calvinism, Catholicism, etc. Is not an indication of faith. It is an indication of the absence of faith.
 

Right Divider

Body part
The sole purpose of the Bible is to reveal Jesus Christ and his Gospel. It is not a Christian Torah.
Paul says to study it. Why do you always go off on some silly rant?

Jesus was a teacher of the law, this is why he quoted Old Testament scripture. The law does not save nor can it justify. The purpose of the law is to condemn, Romans 3:19, 20. Paul said that we are to live by the Spirit and not the law, Galatians 5:18. To live by the Spirit is to live by the Gospel. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We stand complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. No religion needed. Religion, such as Calvinism, Catholicism, etc. Is not an indication of faith. It is an indication of the absence of faith.
You are quoting scripture.
 

Clete

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Clete asks, "What is the Gospel?"

The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf.

In our name and on our behalf Jesus fulfilled all of the demands of God's Holy Law. The law demands perfection. Jesus is the only one that could offer to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to God's Holy Law. Jesus is our righteousness, we don't have any because we are sinners, Romans 3:10. We are totally and completely dependent upon the righteousness of Christ for our salvation.

In our name and on our behalf Jesus has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Proof that Jesus fulfilled the law and atoned for our sins is that God raised Jesus from the dead and has seated him at his own right hand as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. When God accepted Jesus into heaven, we were accepted in him. We can now stand before God's Holy Court as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

This is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Calvinist, Catholics and many others reject this Gospel and in doing so place themselves under condemnation and judgment. Salvation is still by grace through faith, no faith, no salvation.

There's a whole heck of a lot of doctrinal detail there that I'm not certainly one has to believe in order to get saved. A lot of that understanding would come after, not before.

  • God exists. He is the Creator of all things and He is holy, perfect and just.
  • We have, by doing evil things, rebelled against God.
  • We, having rebelled against the God who gave us our life and is Life itself, deserve death.
  • God, being unwilling that all should perish, provided for Himself a propitiation (an atoning sacrifice) in the person of His only begotten Son, God the Son, whom we call Jesus.
  • Jesus bore the sins of the world and died on the cross on our behalf.
  • If you call upon the name of the Lord (i.e. acknowledge your need of a savior and that He is that Savior) and believe that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

That, I'd say, is the bare bones of the gospel message and even that may have a bit more detail than is strictly required for one to be saved.

Now, as heretical and irrationaly insane as Calvinist and Catholic doctrine might be, I know of no Calvinist or Catholic that denies any of the above. They may add to it and they may argue about the "whys" and the "wherefores" but those Calvinists/Catholics that deny the above facts of the gospel are few and far between.

Now, when a Calvinist starts saying things that are just outright blasphemous, one might start to wonder about whether they are trusting in the wrong god. That might well be the case in some cases but I think its a far and wide over generalization to make the statement that, "Calvinist, Catholics and other religions do not believe the life changing Gospel of Jesus Christ. They are outside of the faith and are under the judgment of God."

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
There's a whole heck of a lot of doctrinal detail there that I'm not certainly one has to believe in order to get saved. A lot of that understanding would come after, not before.

  • God exists. He is the Creator of all things and He is holy, perfect and just.
  • We have, by doing evil things, rebelled against God.
  • We, having rebelled against the God who gave us our life and is Life itself, deserve death.
  • God, being unwilling that all should perish, provided for Himself a propitiation (an atoning sacrifice) in the person of His only begotten Son, God the Son, whom we call Jesus.
  • Jesus bore the sins of the world and died on the cross on our behalf.
  • If you call upon the name of the Lord (i.e. acknowledge your need of a savior and that He is that Savior) and believe that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

That, I'd say, is the bare bones of the gospel message and even that may have a bit more detail than is strictly required for one to be saved.

Now, as heretical and irrationaly insane as Calvinist and Catholic doctrine might be, I know of no Calvinist or Catholic that denies any of the above. They may add to it and they may argue about the "whys" and the "wherefores" but those Calvinists/Catholics that deny the above facts of the gospel are few and far between.

Now, when a Calvinist starts saying things that are just outright blasphemous, one might start to wonder about whether they are trusting in the wrong god. That might well be the case in some cases but I think its a far and wide over generalization to make the statement that, "Calvinist, Catholics and other religions do not believe the life changing Gospel of Jesus Christ. They are outside of the faith and are under the judgment of God."

Resting in Him,
Clete


No you don't have to understand all that I posted, but if you do understand it you will not be led away by false doctrine. We are saved by simple child like faith in Jesus.

Calvinist and Catholics do not have child like faith. If they did they would not need their religion.
 

Tambora

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The Holy Spirit has revealed to me that Jesus was the new Adam
That spirit that told you that has just condemned those that trust in scripture (which labels Jesus as the last Adam, not the new Adam).
Why would you give heed to a spirit that tells you to label Jesus with something scripture does not, and then go on to imply that those that believe what scripture says instead of what your spirit says are not giving heed to the Holy Spirit?
 

Robert Pate

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That spirit that told you that has just condemned those that trust in scripture (which labels Jesus as the last Adam, not the new Adam).
Why would you give heed to a spirit that tells you to label Jesus with something scripture does not, and then go on to imply that those that believe what scripture says instead of what your spirit says are not giving heed to the Holy Spirit?

I believe that Jesus is the last Adam, which also makes him the new Adam.
 
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