Is Calvinism Wrong?

[JudgeRightly]

I have the freedom to interpret the Bible as I see fit.

No, you really don't.

That's how cults are formed, Robert.

The scripture plainly says... "Who is the figure of him that was to come" Romans 5:14. The NEW ADAM.

There is nothing about a "new Adam" in that passage, Robert.

Religious people like yourself don't have the freedom to interpret scripture as they see fit. I do because I am not religious.

No one has the freedom to interpret scripture as they see fit.

Sure, you can, and are able to, but doing so would be wrong.

Twisting God's word is never a good thing.

The word "representative" is not in the Bible either, but through the scriptures it is easy to see that Jesus was our representative, even if the Bible does not say so.

Which has nothing to do with changing what Scripture says.

The purpose of the Bible is to reveal Christ and his Gospel, which it does very well. It is not another Torah that must be followed letter by letter.

Which is a very poor argument indeed...

 

[Robert Pate]

That's not a very good standard you have.



People will think there's a new Adam besides Jesus when you say "New Adam."

The Bible, afaik, never calls Adam the "old" Adam. It does, however, call him the "First Adam," and contrasts that term against Jesus' "Last Adam."

Remember what the Bible says about adding to it?



This is called conjecture.

The reason that the Holy Spirit is given is so that we do not become bibleist. Jesus never told us to follow a book. The Pharisees were followers of the book. Everything that they did was according to the book. Christians are to be led by the Spirit, not the book. The Holy Spirit has revealed to me that Jesus was the new Adam, Romans 5:15-19. If you don't see it that way that's your problem.

 

[Robert Pate]

No, you really don't.

That's how cults are formed, Robert.



There is nothing about a "new Adam" in that passage, Robert.



No one has the freedom to interpret scripture as they see fit.

Sure, you can, and are able to, but doing so would be wrong.

Twisting God's word is never a good thing.



Which has nothing to do with changing what Scripture says.



Which is a very poor argument indeed...

No one can ever know what the Gospel is by reading the Bible. The only way that anyone can know and understand the Gospel is by the Holy Spirit.

 

[7djengo7]

The Pharisees were followers of the book. Everything that they did was according to the book.

Of what book, exactly, would you say the Pharisees were followers? The Bible? According to Luke, in Acts, one of the things the Pharisees did was to stone Stephen to death; did the Bible direct them to stone Stephen?

 

[7djengo7]

The mods tolerate the utter evil comments of open theists and other Arminians, but ban Reformed thinkers at the drop of a hat. It's rather pathetic.

The mods, evidently, already, from day one, banned Reformed thinkers from even joining this web forum in the first place. Haven't seen a single one of 'em on here.

 

[Bright Raven]

The mods, evidently, already, from day one, banned Reformed thinkers from even joining this web forum in the first place. Haven't seen a single one of 'em on here.

Check in with Ask Mr. Religion for one.

 

[Robert Pate]

Of what book, exactly, would you say the Pharisees were followers? The Bible? According to Luke, in Acts, one of the things the Pharisees did was to stone Stephen to death; did the Bible direct them to stone Stephen?

The Pharisees were followers of the law. They took the first 5 books of the Old Testament and came up with the Torah. There are over 600 laws and rules in the Torah. Stephen was stoned to death because he revealed the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I don't buy the "hyper calvinist" label. That's generally an excuse from an Arminian who isn't comfortable with the five points of Calvinism provided in response to the Remonstrants.

You need not "buy it," but that does not obviate the stance taken on the views espoused by the person to whom the label is attached. Call it whatever you want...just don't call it orthodox Calvinism.

It has nothing to do with Arminian canards.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I have the freedom to interpret the Bible as I see fit.

Sure you do, Robert. So do Mormons, JWs, etc. :AMR:

There is nothing in Scripture that teaches we are all just mini-popes. Scripture teaches interpretation in community of the saints.

It is Sola Scriptura, not Solo Scriptura.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/mathison.pdf

http://www.twoagespilgrims.com/doctrine/7-reasons-why-solo-scriptura-is-not-sola-scriptura/


AMR

 

[glorydaz]

Regarding my statement that Jesus is the new Adam. It is not possible for Jesus to actually be the new Adam because he is the eternal Son of God, Colossians 1:16. What I meant was that Jesus is like the new Adam. The Bible teaches this,

"For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Christ) many shall be made righteous" Romans 5:19.

The first Adam brings sin and death upon us, the second Adam (Christ) brings righteousness and eternal life". Jesus is LIKE a new Adam.

Except Paul never uses the term "second Adam" or "new Adam".

He does use the term "second man" and "last Adam".

He used both terms for a specific reason...not because he liked the sounds of one or the other.

When you change the very words of a verse, you show you don't understand what Paul was saying. In like manner, GT claims Jesus is the Father. Or in like manner, Rosen uses the term "fruits of the Spirit" instead of "fruit of the Spirit". Such a small and seemingly inconsequential change...much like what Eve and the serpent did in the garden of Eden.

 

[glorydaz]

I like the phrase "new Adam". If you say "last Adam" people will think that you are talking about the Genesis Adam. God and his Son like new things. A new heaven, a new earth, a New Testament. The word "new" appears in the Bible over 150 times. I don't think that Jesus would mind me calling him the "new Adam".

Except He isn't a "new Adam". He is the last Adam.


In what way might He be the "last Adam" instead of the "new Adam"?

1 Cor. 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.​

 

[glorydaz]

The reason that the Holy Spirit is given is so that we do not become bibleist. Jesus never told us to follow a book. The Pharisees were followers of the book. Everything that they did was according to the book. Christians are to be led by the Spirit, not the book. The Holy Spirit has revealed to me that Jesus was the new Adam, Romans 5:15-19. If you don't see it that way that's your problem.

:doh:

 

[glorydaz]

No one can ever know what the Gospel is by reading the Bible. The only way that anyone can know and understand the Gospel is by the Holy Spirit.

Nonsense. The Gospel is presented to us in the Bible. You would have no idea of the Gospel unless it had been recorded for us in the Bible. It is written, Robert, for a reason. If it wasn't written in God's Holy Word, you'd still be making idols out of sticks and stones, trying to please the unknown God.

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.​

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The reason that the Holy Spirit is given is so that we do not become bibleist. Jesus never told us to follow a book. The Pharisees were followers of the book. Everything that they did was according to the book. Christians are to be led by the Spirit, not the book. The Holy Spirit has revealed to me that Jesus was the new Adam, Romans 5:15-19. If you don't see it that way that's your problem.

Never ceases to amaze, Robert.

Then again, why would I even be surprised:

I have the freedom to interpret the Bible as I see fit.

Such a practice leads to this collection of oddities:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...edestination&p=4402162&viewfull=1#post4402162

You are becoming a textbook example of how far one can wander off the reservation when one ignores the very community you are living within. Come back, Robert.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

Nonsense. The Gospel is presented to us in the Bible. You would have no idea of the Gospel unless it had been recorded for us in the Bible. It is written, Robert, for a reason. If it wasn't written in God's Holy Word, you'd still be making idols out of sticks and stones, trying to please the unknown God.

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.​

The Gospel is in the Bible, but it cannot be understood without the Holy Spirit, nor can many other spiritual things be understood without the leading of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is a spiritual book and was written by men that were indwelt with the Holy Spirit. However, the Bible does not take the place of the Holy Spirit. There are many things in the Bible that cannot be understood by the natural man, 1 Corinthians 1:14. This is one reason why there is so much contention on this Forum.

 

[Rosenritter]

I don't buy the "hyper calvinist" label. That's generally an excuse from an Arminian who isn't comfortable with the five points of Calvinism provided in response to the Remonstrants.

It was Ask Mr. Religion that applied the "Hyper Calvinist" label... are you suggesting that AMR is a closet Arminian?

 

[Rosenritter]

The reason that the Holy Spirit is given is so that we do not become bibleist. Jesus never told us to follow a book. The Pharisees were followers of the book. Everything that they did was according to the book. Christians are to be led by the Spirit, not the book. The Holy Spirit has revealed to me that Jesus was the new Adam, Romans 5:15-19. If you don't see it that way that's your problem.

Matthew 4:4 KJV
(4) But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[Rosenritter]

Check in with Ask Mr. Religion for one.

Lon for another.

 

[Rosenritter]

The Gospel is in the Bible, but it cannot be understood without the Holy Spirit, nor can many other spiritual things be understood without the leading of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is a spiritual book and was written by men that were indwelt with the Holy Spirit. However, the Bible does not take the place of the Holy Spirit. There are many things in the Bible that cannot be understood by the natural man, 1 Corinthians 1:14. This is one reason why there is so much contention on this Forum.

The bible will not contradict the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit will not contradict the bible.

Romans 8:9 KJV
(9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2 Peter 1:21 KJV
(21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

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