Everything that God does he does corporately, not individually.
"Then Peter opened his mouth and said, of a truth I perceive THAT GOD IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS" Acts 10:34.
Last edited:
Is Calvinism Wrong?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Everything that God does he does corporately, not individually.
"Then Peter opened his mouth and said, of a truth I perceive THAT GOD IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS" Acts 10:34.
beloved57
Well-known member
False statement no where to be found in scripture !
Rosenritter
New member
Answering in two parts: the scripture does not say that Pharaoh was hardened unto eternal damnation. Please consider that if Pharaoh will be ultimately condemned, would his own heart not be sufficient unto that condemnation? Yet if Pharaoh would repent in the resurrection of the dead (for we have hope that there shall be a resurrection of both the just and unjust) how could the character of God harden the repentant heart, and why would God harden his heart at that time for no purpose? (please continue below as to that purpose.)
So Pharaoh's heart was hardened for some other purpose, even that His power would be shown, that His name would be declared throughout all the earth, that Egypt would know that he is the LORD, and that when He would be lifted up, that he would draw all men unto him, for the salvation of our souls.
Spoiler
I am not sure what you are asking when you question "But with the pagan / heathen it is OK?" Does there seem to be an inconsistency that I should address?
Last edited:
Peter, a chosen apostle of Jesus Christ refutes you.
Rosenritter
New member
Robert, are you absolutely certain that God has never acted towards an individual? That seems like a pretty broad statement to make.
Luke 23:42-43 KJV
(42) And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
"Thou" is a singular word, which would indicate that the promise was made to a specific individual.
Rosey mentioned Matthew 25 regarding the sheep and the goats. Here is what Jesus says about the goats:
41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.
Notice they are the cursed ones.
Now look at the sheep:
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world.
Notice they inherit what was prepared for them from the creation of the world.
You have to deal with the fact that God chooses and we don't.
41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.
Notice they are the cursed ones.
Now look at the sheep:
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world.
Notice they inherit what was prepared for them from the creation of the world.
You have to deal with the fact that God chooses and we don't.
In the Old Testament God dealt with individuals. In the New Testament God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. All THINGS have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.
Salvation is a corporate thing, not an individual thing. Jesus provides salvation for the whole human race, Hebrews 2:9. All of humanity has been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. However, nothing is ours unless we individually receive God's great free gift of salvation, Ephesian 2:8.
So...God puts a box down somewhere and the ones smart enough to take it get rewarded and those who aren't smart enough to take it have Jesus atoning sacrifice removed from them.
Question: Where do you see grace (unmerited favor) when you have to either be smart enough to realize there's a gift on the corner, or you have to be a lucky theif who thinks he's stolen a box that was just left around.
God is passive and the gift goes to the few who don't walk by and just take it.
I don't see grace anywhere.
Rosenritter
New member
I understand what you are trying to say (and I'm fairly certain that I am in agreement) but I think you're using the wrong word. It's differences in words that boil over into disagreements like we see here. Salvation is applied individually.... but any irrevocable predetermination of salvation would be corporate: the body of Christ shall be redeemed, the children of the devil shall be destroyed.
Rosenritter
New member
The same parable shows that God has criteria for what he uses to distinguish the sheep from the goat.
Both the sheep and the goats were unaware of Jesus presence. The criteria is God's choice as you can see in the key verses.
Rosenritter
New member
If you mean that neither the sheep or the goats acted as if they expected the outcome, I might allow that, but that isn't related to the question. The point is that the King judges by criteria based upon the heart and the behavior of the individual people. Thus, they were people first, and their behavior decided their status as "sheep" or "goats."
Which of these two statements were given as an explanation to those on his left hand?
a) "You were made a goat from the beginning of the world and you had no ability to choose otherwise"
b) "Insomuch as ye have not done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have not done it unto me."
The answer is B. Those on the left hand and the right hand are separated by God based upon their actions. No other reason is given for their classification as "sheep" or "goat" and no other reason is given to them for their blessing into life or their being cursed into hell fire.
Last edited:
glorydaz
Well-known member
How does that work to command someone to love? Just answer me that.
Why did Jesus preach the law and say, "Be ye perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect." This was my question from the start, but you are not addressing it.
So, what is the purpose of the Law? What was Jesus wanting people to do? Keep the Law? Try hard to obey the Law? He was pretty careful to let those He spoke to know that even looking at a woman with lust was the same as adultery. Yet, He says to be perfect. I'm addressing Jesus' earthly ministry here.
Rosenritter
New member
Confirmation Bias
Confirmation Bias
I'm not aiming this at anything specific right now: this likely has some pull on every one of us.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Confirmation bias
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias is a variation of the more general tendency of apophenia.
People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).
A series of psychological experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way. However, even scientists can be prone to confirmation bias.[2]
Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in political and organizational contexts.[3][4]
Confirmation Bias
I'm not aiming this at anything specific right now: this likely has some pull on every one of us.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Confirmation bias
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias is a variation of the more general tendency of apophenia.
People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).
A series of psychological experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way. However, even scientists can be prone to confirmation bias.[2]
Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in political and organizational contexts.[3][4]
Rosenritter
New member
If we love him we would gladly obey such a commandment. This is something that you either understand... or you don't understand yet. I could use my own words, but wouldn't John's words be more preferred? John isn't afraid of the word "commandment" and neither should we.
1 John 4:20-21 KJV
(20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
(21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
1 John 5:1-3 KJV
(1) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
(2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
(3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
I have already answered your question multiple times, and I don't understand why you don't understand. Jesus defined perfect love as the only perfection that matters. We are to become love as God is love. Can you explain to me what it is of these answers that you do not understand?
When you say "what is the purpose of the Law" you need to define which Law you are talking about. The Law of God? or the Law of Moses? There is going to be confusion on this point when the questions and answers flex back and forth between both meanings. If I attempt to answer for every possible combination the answers will necessarily go into more pages than anyone will read, and before you know it one or more people are going to be pulling if-then answers out of context to start a war.
So I'll try a short answer. Jesus did not preach for three and a half years on the earth to "preach obedience to the law of Moses." The "be ye therefore perfect" was not in respect to "perfect keeping of the law of Moses" but to love one another, even to love our enemies, and this was the perfection ultimately required of us to become perfect in love even as our Father in heaven is perfect in love.
Can you imagine an eternity filled with backbiting, hating, quarrelsome beings which never shut up and never sleep? Can that possibly exist as the Body of Christ?
Heaven cannot tolerate anything less than perfection in love, and if we will be his and of his body, we must be willing to sacrifice all hatred and evil and willingly submit to his Spirit, to allow ourselves to be converted and changed in his image. That is how one obeys the command to "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." It does not, can not work without the Holy Spirit. It is a spiritual command, impossible as a work of the flesh, yet this is what we must be to be called children of our Father in heaven.
God in the person of Jesus Christ has provided salvation for EVERYONE. That is grace. If you are too stupid to accept it maybe you deserve to go to hell. That was God's only begotten Son on the cross dying for the sins of the world. Was that not enough? Are you going to reject that?
The only one's that are going to be in heaven are those that honor the Son. If you don't honor the Son, you will perish and maybe you should.
Rosenritter
New member
It wasn't put in a box, He was lifted up so that He might draw all men to Him, in a dramatic fashion so that all might see and understand.
John 12:32-33 KJV
(32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(33) This he said, signifying what death he should die.
How do you not see unmerited favor in the cross, that those will look upon him may live? No one can cover their own sins, none can redeem himself, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The cross is grace in action. The Lamb and His Passover is His gift.
beloved57
Well-known member
False statements. You deny that Christ death saved them He died for. That's dishonoring the Son!
Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
The judge made his judgment based upon whether there was an inheritance or a curse. After dividing along those lines, he tells the two groups that one had acted to care for people, the other had acted to serve self. They acted the way they did because...the sheep had an inheritance from the beginning of time while the goats lived under the curse of Adams sin.
Jesus is making it crystal clear that no one is righteous by their own works.
The purpose of the law is to condemn law breakers, of which all humanity is guilty.
Justice demands punishment for crimes against the Creator. Have you paid the cost for your crimes?