beloved57
Well-known member
Yes I have, And you saying that doesnt make it not so.
Is believing/faith a work ?
- Thread starter beloved57
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No, you haven't.
Unfortunately for you, The onus is on you to show where you have. Since you have not, you cannot.
John Piper's illustrations show that you are wrong.
beloved57
Well-known member
If we say that God wont save an individual unless that individual accepts Christ or accepts Gods Grace, thats nothing short of promoting salvation by works, or salvation conditioned on what a person does, their act. See salvation is solely by Grace, its given and its received by the ones its given to by Grace. Grace isnt an offer, it sovereignly makes one alive Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
A person doesnt need to accept whether or not God will make them alive or not. The dead lazarus wasn't offered to be made alive by Christ, he had no decision to make, it was Christs will alone and His Fathers that they may be glorified Jn 11:4
When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
Hence those who say that Grace must be accepted in order for God to save you, are making the final condition for salvation contingent on what a person does, its nothing but good old mans religion motivated by the spiritually dead carnal mind. Its salvation by works !
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
A person doesnt need to accept whether or not God will make them alive or not. The dead lazarus wasn't offered to be made alive by Christ, he had no decision to make, it was Christs will alone and His Fathers that they may be glorified Jn 11:4
When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
Hence those who say that Grace must be accepted in order for God to save you, are making the final condition for salvation contingent on what a person does, its nothing but good old mans religion motivated by the spiritually dead carnal mind. Its salvation by works !
Arial
Active member
It says that this faith is a gift of God. Given by God, not originating in our mind. It is the choice to believe, as many say they do, and this choice is what causes them to reborn, that is the work---not the faith. Choosing is a work. Being born again, then becomes the work that generates the work of being reborn. In which case both choosing and being reborn are a work of man, not God.
beloved57
Well-known member
Is believing Faith a work ? Yes because its doing something, and consequently if a person must do something prior to God granting them Salvation, then its not to be considered Salvation by Grace, but the opposite, salvation by works. Thats to say, salvation is being rewarded based on something you did !
No, it's not.
If your faith is not proven by your works then your faith is dead.
- James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
- James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
- James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
No. It is not a work.
It is a response to what God has done for us.
God makes salvation available to those who have faith. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Salvation isn't the reward for anything. It is a gift from God.
God gives that gift to those who have faith. He does not give the gift to those who do not have faith. Cannot God choose which group He gives a gift to, the group that has people having faith, rather than the group that has people who do not have faith?
Right Divider
Body part
The Bible makes is crystal clear that faith/belief is NOT a "work".
Rom 4:1-5 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (4:2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. (4:3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (4:4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (4:5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:1-5 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (4:2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. (4:3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (4:4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (4:5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
beloved57
Well-known member
Nowhere in that passage does it say Faith/Believing isnt a work. Because believing is something a person does.
Right Divider
Body part
The passage CLEARLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY contrasts WORKS and BELIEF.
You are so blind that you cannot see.
Go back to grammar school, because that's exactly what it says. "does not work BUT believes" means that Paul doesn't consider believing a work. I'll believe Paul over you.
beloved57
Well-known member
Thats what you need to do.
Right Divider
Body part
Your stupidity and childishness never cease to amaze.
God contrasts faith and works in Rom 4 as was mentioned earlier. If God had said what you want to believe He would have said,
4.5 But to him that worketh not is granted the faith of righteousness in order to be justified for no human reason nor involvement.
However, that is not what this verse says:
(4:5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
oatmeal
Well-known member
In a sense, believing is work. even changing one's mind takes work. If Bob Smith believes he cannot do all things through Christ... Philippians 4:13 and he is taught Philippians 4:13, it may take a great deal of mental work for him to break his old bad habit of defeat and inadequacy to start believing that he can.
Thus we find out that Romans 10:9-10 involves some work of the mind and heart. It may take some work for a person to get to the point of realizing that Jesus is lord and that God raised him from the dead. But in believing both truths, neither pays for the gift of salvation, that person is simply doing what it takes to receive salvation, not earn it.
If you believe that nobody gets saved by turning from sin and asking Jesus for forgiveness unless God makes him do that then you must also believe, with Calvin, that God has never had any desire to save those He foreordains to burn in hell for being divinely made to refuse to repent of their sins and seek His salvation. That assumption must ignore what God said about Himself that He does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked but that the wicked would turn from his sins and be saved.
beloved57
Well-known member
If we condition Salvation/Justification based on our faith or believing, as some say of God in eternal election and foreknowledge, that God did see beforehand who would believe on Him, and Justified them based upon that, then that means God Justified us based upon some foreseen grace or goodness in us, which totally does away with being Justified freely by His Grace Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Thats what makes faith/believing a meritorious work !
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Thats what makes faith/believing a meritorious work !
oatmeal
Well-known member
Our salvation is certainly not based on our believing or works, it is based on the works of Jesus Christ who did the works God told him to do.
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
We, who believe, were justified by his blood. Without Jesus' shedding of blood, our "faith" would be meaningless, it would be foundationless.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
We received justification when we believed, but our believing is not the basis for our justification.