Is believing/faith a work ?

[beloved57]

oatmeal

We received justification when we believed, but our believing is not the basis for our justification.

This statement I would agree with as long as its understood those Christ shed his Blood for were Justified by it[Rom 5:9] before God long before they received the knowledge of it by God given Faith.

In other words they were Justified before God by His Blood before they believed. Now do you concur with that ?

 

[beloved57]

Another definition for works from a english dictionary:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

the deeds of a person, esp virtuous or moral deeds performed as religious acts works of charity

Now isnt ones act of believing the deed of a person ? Is believing a virtuous or moral or spiritual deed ? If so, and we believe out salvation depends on us doing that deed, it constitutes salvation by our works, our doing a deed.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Now isnt ones act of believing the deed of a person?

No.

Is believing a virtuous or moral or spiritual deed?

No.

Here's why:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:8-9&version=NKJV

 

[beloved57]

No.



No.

Here's why:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:8-9&version=NKJV

To your answers NO, I disagree. And you already know why I disagree.

 

[JudgeRightly]

To your answers NO, I disagree.

Good for you. You're exercising free will. You're wrong, of course. Your disagreement is error.

And you already know why I disagree.

Because you hold to false teaching.

 

[marke]

Another definition for works from a english dictionary:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

the deeds of a person, esp virtuous or moral deeds performed as religious acts works of charity

Now isnt ones act of believing the deed of a person ? Is believing a virtuous or moral or spiritual deed ? If so, and we believe out salvation depends on us doing that deed, it constitutes salvation by our works, our doing a deed.

If your faith does not work then you are still dead in your sins.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

... your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

 

[beloved57]

If your faith does not work then you are still dead in your sins.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

... your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Did you understand the post point ?

 

[7djengo7]

So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !

Do you consider it rational to call a sinner's admission that God saved him/her, "boasting"? Rationally-thinking people don't.

Do you consider saying "God saved me" to be the same as saying "I saved myself"? Rationally-thinking people don't.

"God saved me" = not boasting
"I saved myself" = boasting

 

[beloved57]

Do you consider it rational to call a sinner's admission that God saved him/her, "boasting"? Rationally-thinking people don't.

Do you consider saying "God saved me" to be the same as saying "I saved myself"? Rationally-thinking people don't.

"God saved me" = not boasting
"I saved myself" = boasting

In essence, when you say that God saved me because I did something, its equivalent to saying I saved myself.

 

[Hoping]

In essence, when you say that God saved me because I did something, its equivalent to saying I saved myself.

God will save me on the day of judgement because I believed Him and obey Him.
If I don't keep believing and obeying Him, I will not be saved.

Will anyone who does not believe and obey Him be saved?
No.

 

[7djengo7]

In essence, when you say that God saved me because I did something, its equivalent to saying I saved myself.

Why do you say that?

In other words they were Justified before God by His Blood before they believed.

So, according to you, nobody is justified by faith? If a man was already justified BEFORE he believed, then obviously he is not justified BY believing.

 

[beloved57]

Why do you say that?



So, according to you, nobody is justified by faith? If a man was already justified BEFORE he believed, then obviously he is not justified BY believing.

You need to read my thread on justification, therein

Why do you say that?



So, according to you, nobody is justified by faith? If a man was already justified BEFORE he believed, then obviously he is not justified BY believing.

I have threads on justification you can read what I believe.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You need to read my thread on justification, therein

I have threads on justification you can read what I believe.

No one is going to read an entire thread just to answer a simple question like what 7s asked. Just answer the question here.

Or are you not "ready to give an answer"?

 

[beloved57]

No one is going to read an entire thread just to answer a simple question like what 7s asked. Just answer the question here.

Or are you not "ready to give an answer"?

One doesnt have to read the entire thread. I have given an answer and explanation of Justification by faith. This thread is about Why believing, faith, is a work !

 

[beloved57]

7dj

Why do you say that?

I just told you, you quoted it !

 

[JudgeRightly]

One doesnt have to read the entire thread. I have given an answer and explanation of Justification by faith.

That doesn't answer the question 7s asked.

This thread is about Why believing, faith, is a work !

Except it's not a work, regardless of what you believe.

 

[beloved57]

@7djengo7​

So, according to you, nobody is justified by faith?

I never said that, so you are misrepresenting me. Please show me where I posted that statement.

In the mean time read what I posted a while back

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Who Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Rom 5:6 For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. These verses tells us something...

theologyonline.com

 

[7djengo7]

You had said:​

In other words they were Justified before God by His Blood before they believed.​

So, I asked you:
​

So, according to you, nobody is justified by faith?​

Yes or No?

beloved57: <NO ANSWER>
​

I never said that,​

You never said what?
​

so you are misrepresenting me.​

I asked you a question (which, so far, you've not answered). How is my asking you that question misrepresenting you? That's right: contrary to your glaring falsehood, I am not misrepresenting you.

Now, either you think that nobody is justified BY faith, or you do not think that nobody is justified BY faith. So, which is it? According to you, is nobody justified BY faith? Yes or No?
​

Please show me where I posted that statement.
​

Show you where you posted what statement?
​

In other words they were Justified before God by His Blood before they believed.​

Obviously that is false. Were someone justified BEFORE he/she believed/had faith, then his/her justification were necessarily NOT BY belief/faith. Since I believe the Bible, I believe in justification BY faith. To believe (what you're trying to hand us) that someone was already justified BEFORE he/she believed/had faith is to contradict the Bible, and is to be an heretic.

To be justified BEFORE faith would be to NOT be justified BY faith. It's very simple, really.​

 

[beloved57]

7djegoy

I asked you a question (which, so far, you've not answered). How is my asking you that question misrepresenting you? That's right: contrary to your glaring falsehood, I am not misrepresenting you.

You didnt ask me a strait question, you asked it in a way that insinuated I made the statement. Here is your question:

So, according to you, nobody is justified by faith?

What do you mean " according to me" ? I never made the that statement, so how is it according to me ?

Thats misleading, the average reasonable person would gather from that question, that I must have made that statement. So do you acknowledge that could be a misleading question the way you phrased it ?

Why not ask plainly, so do you believe in Justification by Faith ? That to me would have been appropriate.

 

[7djengo7]

Why not ask plainly, so do you believe in Justification by Faith ? That to me would have been appropriate.

Obviously you don't believe in justification by faith, since you tell us that people are already justified BEFORE faith. Duh. So, why would I say to you, "Do you believe in justification by faith?" seeing as I already know that you do not believe in justification by faith? Clearly, you do not believe the truth, the Bible doctrine of justification by faith; rather, you believe the anti-Bible, false doctrine of justification before faith.

Also, remember: you tell us that, by your word, "faith," you are (asininely) referring to a work, and so, were you to say to us, "I believe in justification by faith," we'd easily understand that, by that, you mean "I believe in justification by [a work]."
​

That to me would have been appropriate.

Do I sound as though I care whether or not the questions I put to you are convenient for you in your woefully futile attempts to salvage and sell your doctrinal shipwreck?