Interpretation

[chrysostom]

So I did... If you are one of his sheep, the Holy Spirit will do his job, if you aren't.. he is under no obligation to.

The elect (and no one knows who they are) have the Holy Spirit.

It sounds like you are looking for a way to work your way to heaven.

well that makes sense
to
someone who believes they have no choice
and
that doesn't make sense

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Correct...We can choose to accept what Jesus said...or reject Him.

The point is that words mean something. You seem to think your babbling should be accepted rather than what Christ clearly taught.
2 Timothy 2:16 “But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.”

Those words did not come from Christ. They came out of the book of Timothy.

 

[HisServant]

well that makes sense
to
someone who believes they have no choice
and
that doesn't make sense

It makes sense, because all have sinned and deserve hell. What do you think that you can possibly do that will blot out or atone for your own sins?

 

[Prizebeatz1]

But everyone's self awareness is different... their reality is different.

Right. Thus the ability to have multiple interpretations.

 

[HisServant]

Right. Thus the ability to have multiple interpretations.

I would add that most interpretations come from carnal minds, minds that create god in their own image.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

It makes sense, because all have sinned and deserve hell. What do you think that you can possibly do that will blot out or atone for your own sins?

We can stop biting of the forbidden fruit for one.

 

[HisServant]

We can stop biting of the forbidden fruit for one.

You already did... you did before you were born. Once bitten there is no going back.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

I would add that most interpretations come from carnal minds, minds that create god in their own image.

That is exactly what we have right now with this belief in Jesus.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

You already did... you did before you were born. Once bitten there is no going back.

What is the reason we have to continue biting?

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Well if that is the case then we are included in this reality, included in this truth, included in this universe, included with God, correct? We could never be divided from all this. So what's with the unconscious belief that we are somehow separate?

Holiness. Sin separates us from Him. He cleanses us with His blood, with our trust in Him. With this we find reconcilation and fellowship with Him spiritually, He gives us all we need to Love like Him, Himself, His love.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Holiness. Sin separates us from Him. He cleanses us with His blood, with our trust in Him. With this we find reconcilation and fellowship with Him spiritually, He gives us all we need to Love like Him, Himself, His love.

Is it sin that separates or the belief in sin that separates? Again, can we really ever be separate except in our own mind? How can we separate from the universe, from reality, from the truth, from God? It seems to me there is nowhere we can go or nothing we can do to actually separate from existence. We can pretend about it all day long but that doesn't really change anything except in the mind of the one who is pretending.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Is it sin that separates or the belief in sin that separates? Again, can we really ever be separate except in our own mind? How can we separate from the universe, from reality, from the truth, from God? It seems to me there is nowhere we can go or nothing we can do to actually separate from existence. We can pretend about it all day long but that doesn't really change anything except in the mind of the one who is pretending.

I experience His glorious presence, when I pray, worship, feed on His word and love. He is love. He brings His fruit: peace, joy, love, kindness, goodness. Fellowship with Him, relational intimacy with Him fills us with Him.

Try being filled with rage, hate, disdain, contentment, you won't be filled with Him at the same time.

The Holy Spirit's very real presence validates Jesus, His word, the truth.

 

[HisServant]

What is the reason we have to continue biting?

Because you are who you are.... darkness hates the light... there is nothing in you that makes the light attractive.

 

[HisServant]

I experience His glorious presence, when I pray, worship, feed on His word and love. He is love. He brings His fruit: peace, joy, love, kindness, goodness. Fellowship with Him, relational intimacy with Him fills us with Him.

Try being filled with rage, hate, disdain, contentment, you won't be filled with Him at the same time.

The Holy Spirit's very real presence validates Jesus, His word, the truth.

I think you are confusing his real presence with some sort of religious emotion.... God does not live in a church, he doesn't like when you pray in public. Most of what people do in the name of the religion that people built to him is an against the spirit.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You ask a lot of questions.

How many different ways could one interpret the scriptures?

The Jews have a saying, “Ask two Jews, get three opinions.”
When it comes to scripture, everyone seems to have one or more opinions about the way to interpret it.

Does interpretation from God or from man?

Both.
Those without the Holy Spirit will interpret it by man.
Those with the Holy Spirit will typically interpret it by man, but will occasionally interpret it by the Holy Spirit.

Why does this make a difference?

The difference made is whether the interpretation leads to destruction or not.

2 Peter 3:16 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.​

Is the literal translation the only one with merit?

Yes and no.

Why or why not?

There are a number of phrases in the Bible that do not make sense to translate literally (colloquialisms).
The main message of the Bible should be taken literally, and the translation should lead to that.

Who holds the power to declare which interpretation is most appropriate?

The individual whose salvation is at stake is the one that holds the power.
As Paul stated, "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." Romans 14:5

Can one interpretation be more correct or more accurate than another?

Yes

What evidence or support is available to suggest that an entity has the authority to determine which
interpretation is valid and/or more valid than another?

No entity has the authority.
Any entity that claims to have that authority is automatically disqualified the moment they make that statement.

Who is interpreting the evidence or support that is being used to come up with the original interpretation?

A crowd of faceless, nameless, people that don't matter in the long run.

Does one interpretation have all the correct answers and if it doesn't, does that invalidate any of the viewpoints that do make sense?

No interpretation has all the correct answers, which means that no other viewpoint is invalidated by any other interpretation.

Does any one interpretation make perfect sense?

None do.

What should we do if someone proposes an alternative interpretation that we know through discernment makes much more sense to us?

Study it for yourself, looking for the flaws in both the interpretation you hold and the interpretation the other holds. Only after identifying the flaws should you look to see if scripture supports either one.

Is it okay to continue believing one interpretation if we know there is a more accurate one available?

Yes, you can continue believing one if it is in harmony with the other interpretations you hold and the "more accurate one" is not in harmony with those interpretations.
But that does mean you need to start examining the other interpretations you hold to see why the "more accurate one" is not in harmony with them.

What would prevent us from accepting a more true interpretation of the scriptures were it to be presented to us?

I mentioned the harmony of interpretations.

In one interpretation, God decreed everything from the foundation of the world, and history is merely playing out those decrees in time.
Many people will say this is the most true interpretation of the scriptures that you will ever hear.

In another interpretation, God judges each person for their works, whether they be good or evil.

These interpretations are not in harmony with each other.

One other interpretation is that God did not decree everything but has seen everything in the future.
Another interpretation is that God cannot see the future since it hasn't happened.

Both of these are more in harmony with the interpretation God judges each person for their works.

So, do you accept the interpretation you think is true but is out of harmony, or do you question that interpretation and accept one that you do not think is as true but is in harmony with the other interpretations you believe?

 

[nikolai_42]

Is it sin that separates or the belief in sin that separates? Again, can we really ever be separate except in our own mind? How can we separate from the universe, from reality, from the truth, from God? It seems to me there is nowhere we can go or nothing we can do to actually separate from existence. We can pretend about it all day long but that doesn't really change anything except in the mind of the one who is pretending.

Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
Isaiah 59:1-3

There was no pretending here. Sin separates us from fellowship with God. Just like God may hear our prayers in a superficial way, He won't listen if there is something between Him and us. That's why we are to leave our gift at the altar if we remember there that our brother has anything against us (Matthew 5:23-24)...and why the prayers of the married couple can be hindered by not living according to the pattern He set down (I Peter 3:1-7) which is a picture of Christ and His church.

No matter how much one believes that sin won't separate them from God, the scriptures plainly state otherwise. It is reality, not subjective....

 

[Prizebeatz1]

You ask a lot of questions.

The Jews have a saying, “Ask two Jews, get three opinions.”
When it comes to scripture, everyone seems to have one or more opinions about the way to interpret it.

Both.
Those without the Holy Spirit will interpret it by man.
Those with the Holy Spirit will typically interpret it by man, but will occasionally interpret it by the Holy Spirit.

The difference made is whether the interpretation leads to destruction or not.

2 Peter 3:16 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.​

Yes and no.

There are a number of phrases in the Bible that do not make sense to translate literally (colloquialisms).
The main message of the Bible should be taken literally, and the translation should lead to that.

The individual whose salvation is at stake is the one that holds the power.
As Paul stated, "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." Romans 14:5

Yes

No entity has the authority.
Any entity that claims to have that authority is automatically disqualified the moment they make that statement.

A crowd of faceless, nameless, people that don't matter in the long run.

No interpretation has all the correct answers, which means that no other viewpoint is invalidated by any other interpretation.

None do.

Study it for yourself, looking for the flaws in both the interpretation you hold and the interpretation the other holds. Only after identifying the flaws should you look to see if scripture supports either one.

Yes, you can continue believing one if it is in harmony with the other interpretations you hold and the "more accurate one" is not in harmony with those interpretations.
But that does mean you need to start examining the other interpretations you hold to see why the "more accurate one" is not in harmony with them.

I mentioned the harmony of interpretations.

In one interpretation, God decreed everything from the foundation of the world, and history is merely playing out those decrees in time.
Many people will say this is the most true interpretation of the scriptures that you will ever hear.

In another interpretation, God judges each person for their works, whether they be good or evil.

These interpretations are not in harmony with each other.

One other interpretation is that God did not decree everything but has seen everything in the future.
Another interpretation is that God cannot see the future since it hasn't happened.

Both of these are more in harmony with the interpretation God judges each person for their works.

So, do you accept the interpretation you think is true but is out of harmony, or do you question that interpretation and accept one that you do not think is as true but is in harmony with the other interpretations you believe?

Very well done. I appreciate you taking the time to go through all that. I used to just accept the interpretation that I thought was true. I took for granted it was correct. I didn't know better. Then I had a spiritual awakening and found much disharmony with what I had previously believed. Everything is almost upside down now but it seems to reinforce the bottom line but not in the way I had been taught. So there is harmony in the bigger picture. Again, I thank you for your wonderful input.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

I think you are confusing his real presence with some sort of religious emotion.... God does not live in a church, he doesn't like when you pray in public. Most of what people do in the name of the religion that people built to him is an against the spirit.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness..." Galatians 5:22

His presence and His fruit are undeniable.

 

[6days]

Correct...We can choose to accept what Jesus said...or reject Him.

The point is that words mean something. You seem to think your babbling should be accepted rather than what Christ clearly taught.
2 Timothy 2:16 “But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.”

Those words did not come from Christ. They came out of the book of Timothy

Yes... of course those words are from Timothy.

However we were discussing the claims of Jesus. Specifically, we were discussing His claim that "No one comes to the Father but by me". You seemingly reject what He claimed. I choose to believe Jesus.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
Isaiah 59:1-3

There was no pretending here. Sin separates us from fellowship with God. Just like God may hear our prayers in a superficial way, He won't listen if there is something between Him and us. That's why we are to leave our gift at the altar if we remember there that our brother has anything against us (Matthew 5:23-24)...and why the prayers of the married couple can be hindered by not living according to the pattern He set down (I Peter 3:1-7) which is a picture of Christ and His church.

No matter how much one believes that sin won't separate them from God, the scriptures plainly state otherwise. It is reality, not subjective....

Yes, that is the traditional interpretation. I am stating a simple fact that contradicts it. The idea of separation from God, existence, the universe and the truth cannot be real. It's just the intensity with which we believe in the separation that makes it seem so.