Interpretation

HisServant

New member
The early church did meet in buildings...or we can likely assume so. Don't let the building itself be a hindrance to worship. Many church buildings are a great tool in reaching out to the local communities.... a tool in teaching used 7 days per week. Home churches and rented buildings do have a place, but are unable to serve in the same way that many 'church' buildings do.

The early church met in HOMES... none built churches. And no, they are not a good tool for reaching out... don't fool yourself. They are a waste of public space and a burden on local communities because of their tax exempt status.... they need to start paying their fair share!
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
Why did Jesus come and die on the cross? Why was He resurrected and received into glory? What was the purpose of all that?

It's symbolism for what we have to do to the personality to have peace in the world. Jesus is an example of what we have to do as individuals. We must give up who we think we are for the common good.
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
It's symbolism for what we have to do to the personality to have peace in the world. Jesus is an example of what we have to do as individuals. We must give up who we think we are for the common good.

Tollean to a "T"....Read I Corinthians 15 and see that not only is Christ's death and resurrection very historical - but those who deny that are denying Him. He died - not as an example or symbol - but "for our sins" (I Corinthians 15:3). And His resurrection is a critical part of faith (I Corinthians 15:14). And to tie these two together, we read :

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
I Corinthians 15:17

This is not the message you and Tolle preach.
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
Tollean to a "T"....Read I Corinthians 15 and see that not only is Christ's death and resurrection very historical - but those who deny that are denying Him. He died - not as an example or symbol - but "for our sins" (I Corinthians 15:3). And His resurrection is a critical part of faith (I Corinthians 15:14). And to tie these two together, we read :

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
I Corinthians 15:17

This is not the message you and Tolle preach.

That is one way to see it too. I'm not trying to take that away from you. Hold on until you're ready to let go. Just be aware that the personality wants so much to be right that it is willing to give up connection with its own divinity. It takes much time and inner work to come to terms with this. Take whatever time you need to process it.

There is a reason Jesus often said "Peace be with you". It's because he was the living embodiment of the soul and the soul is NOTHING BUT peace. Hanging on to beliefs is what creates painful turmoil. Again don't let go until you're ready.
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Tollean to a "T"....Read I Corinthians 15 and see that not only is Christ's death and resurrection very historical - but those who deny that are denying Him. He died - not as an example or symbol - but "for our sins" (I Corinthians 15:3). And His resurrection is a critical part of faith (I Corinthians 15:14). And to tie these two together, we read :

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
I Corinthians 15:17

This is not the message you and Tolle preach.

The experience of the cross must happen in us to have any meaning spiritually, Flesh gives birth to flesh which makes traditional historic theology teaching a Christ standing on a foundation made with iron and clay 2Cor 3:6.

Galatians 1:12, 4:23-28, happens in the furnace located in the Kingdom of God Luke 17:20-21, the rudiments of knowing a Christ of flesh/image are no longer valid once you're veil is torn by revelation revealing the spiritual location of the kingdom is within not in the historic past or future pictured/portrayed in allegory Galatians 3:1, 4:24.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
That is one way to see it too. I'm not trying to take that away from you. Hold on until you're ready to let go. Just be aware that the personality wants so much to be right that it is willing to give up connection with its own divinity. It takes much time and inner work to come to terms with this. Take whatever time you need to process it.

There is a reason Jesus often said "Peace be with you". It's because he was the living embodiment of the soul and the soul is NOTHING BUT peace. Hanging on to beliefs is what creates painful turmoil. Again don't let go until you're ready.

Would you consider yourself a "Guru?" of sorts?
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
This is typical of being identified with the enemy. We are so worried about everything but our own soul. The enemy keeps us focused on the outside so that we never look within. We think we can find fulfillment in the world outside of us. But what profits a man if he gain the whole world and loses his own soul?
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
The experience of the cross must happen in us to have any meaning spiritually, Flesh gives birth to flesh which makes traditional historic theology teaching a Christ standing on a foundation made with iron and clay 2Cor 3:6.

Galatians 1:12, 4:23-28, happens in the furnace located in the Kingdom of God Luke 17:20-21, the rudiments of knowing a Christ of flesh/image are no longer valid once you're veil is torn by revelation revealing the spiritual location of the kingdom is within not in the historic past or future pictured/portrayed in allegory Galatians 3:1, 4:24.

When you can redefine (and relocate) terms in scripture to meet your needs, literally anything goes. That's why the New Age has caught such fire in the last generation or two.
 

PureX

Well-known member
How many different ways could one interpret the scriptures? As many ways as there are readers Does interpretation from God or from man? Why does this make a difference? Is the literal translation the only one with merit? Why or why not? Who holds the power to declare which interpretation is most appropriate? Can one interpretation be more correct or more accurate than another?
The act of reading words on a page is interpretive. To read is to interpret the written words and their context. And we have to do this with our own minds, and through our own understanding of things. So that every interpreter (reader) is unique, and thereby so will be their interpretation.

Certainly, we may agree on aspects of our interpretations, but ultimately, all our interpretations will differ to some degree, as we are different people with different ways of understanding ourselves and the world around us.
What evidence or support is available to suggest that an entity has the authority to determine which interpretation is valid and/or more valid than another? Who is interpreting the evidence or support that is being used to come up with the original interpretation? Does one interpretation have all the correct answers and if it doesn't, does that invalidate any of the viewpoints that do make sense?
No one has the authority to determine what we believe, but ourselves. Even those who allow others to determine this, for them, are still choosing to do so, and could choose not to at any time. So that the idea of there being these 'external authorities' is somewhat misleading, as we are still choosing to believe their proclamations, or not to.

But we're choosing based on what? …The evidence of our own experiences, mostly. So it's a combination of fact, desire, intuition, imagination, and who know what else. We are a complex and irrational species.
Does any one interpretation make perfect sense?
'Perfect sense' according to whom? We cannot read the author's mind to know if our interpretation of what he wrote is accurate to what he was thinking. And we never will. So that's out. Does it make 'perfect sense' according to the 'truth of reality'? Again, we humans are limited in both experience and intellect, so we will never fully know the truth of reality. All we can know is what appears to be the truth of reality, to us, at the present time. But that's only a relative truth, that's constantly changing, so there's not much chance of 'perfection', there.

So I would say that we can't know what making 'perfect sense', is, beyond it making perfect sense to our relative, limited, and momentary understanding.
What should we do if someone proposes an alternative interpretation that we know through discernment makes much more sense to us? Is it okay to continue believing one interpretation if we know there is a more accurate one available? What would prevent us from accepting a more true interpretation of the scriptures were it to be presented to us?
I believe that honesty is crucial to good mental and spiritual health. So I have to live with the idea that I can be wrong about anything, any time, and change accordingly when I can see it.

But not everyone feels that way.
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
The act of reading words on a page is interpretive. To read is to interpret the written words and their context. And we have to do this with our own minds, and through our own understanding of things. So that every interpreter (reader) is unique, and thereby so will be their interpretation.

Certainly, we may agree on aspects of our interpretations, but ultimately, all our interpretations will differ to some degree, as we are different people with different ways of understanding ourselves and the world around us.
No one has the authority to determine what we believe, but ourselves. Even those who allow others to determine this, for them, are still choosing to do so, and could choose not to at any time. So that the idea of there being these 'external authorities' is somewhat misleading, as we are still choosing to believe their proclamations, or not to.

But we're choosing based on what? …The evidence of our own experiences, mostly. So it's a combination of fact, desire, intuition, imagination, and who know what else. We are a complex and irrational species.
'Perfect sense' according to whom? We cannot read the author's mind to know if our interpretation of what he wrote is accurate to what he was thinking. And we never will. So that's out. Does it make 'perfect sense' according to the 'truth of reality'? Again, we humans are limited in both experience and intellect, so we will never fully know the truth of reality. All we can know is what appears to be the truth of reality, to us, at the present time. But that's only a relative truth, that's constantly changing, so there's not much chance of 'perfection', there.

So I would say that we can't know what making 'perfect sense', is, beyond it making perfect sense to our relative, limited, and momentary understanding.
I believe that honesty is crucial to good mental and spiritual health. So I have to live with the idea that I can be wrong about anything, any time, and change accordingly when I can see it.

But not everyone feels that way.

+1
 

Zeke

Well-known member
When you can redefine (and relocate) terms in scripture to meet your needs, literally anything goes. That's why the New Age has caught such fire in the last generation or two.

Hard to let go of tradition, the Spirit has none, you relocate to support a historic faith also. The verses speak for themselves about the proper location of the temple built without hands, compared to those built with brick and mortar raised from paper and ink for observational deception.
 
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Ask Mr. Religion

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"Other". Sigh.

How many different ways could one interpret the scriptures?
One way: literal, historical-grammatical.

Does interpretation from God or from man?
From God. God spoke through the superintendence of the Holy Spirit through the writers. Scripture is very Word of God in the words of men as the words of God.

Why does this make a difference?
The One interpreter is infallible. The other, man, is not. ;)

Is the literal translation the only one with merit? Why or why not?
The literal translation is the one that means exactly what it was intended to mean and be so understood thereby. "Literal" does not mean wooden, for literal considers the writer's intent by focusing upon his words in their plain, most obvious sense, e.g., genre, figures of speech, the symbols, the types, the allegories, etc.

Who holds the power to declare which interpretation is most appropriate?
Interpretation is done in community, as per Scripture, in the admonishment to follow the patterns of sound speech. That community is the saints, who in community declare "We confess..." Scripture knows nothing of Lone Ranger, Just Me and My Bible believers.

Can one interpretation be more correct or more accurate than another?
Yes, unless it is the correct translation. ;)

What evidence or support is available to suggest that an entity has the authority to determine which interpretation is valid and/or more valid than another?
Scripture defines that entity: the church.

Who is interpreting the evidence or support that is being used to come up with the original interpretation?
The church that received (not declared as per Romanism) the canon so delivered unto it by God.

Does one interpretation have all the correct answers and if it doesn't, does that invalidate any of the viewpoints that do make sense?
There is but one correct interpretation of Scripture, said correct interpretation inclusive of what that particular verse intended. None of which means the analogy of faith found by good and necessary consequence of the full counsel of Scripture is contradicted.

Does any one interpretation make perfect sense?
Scripture is innately perspicuous. This does not mean there are "hard sayings" therein. But it does mean that it is perspicuous in and of itself and that its teachings are not beyond the grasp of the believer who is willing to commit him or her selves to its study. That mystery is admitted of Scripture, as in the Incarnation or the Trinity, is no warrant to claim Scripture is not innately perspicuous. What is revealed is within our grasp to apprehend in varying degrees of measure, great to some, less to others, but to each according to his or her gifts and abilities.

What should we do if someone proposes an alternative interpretation that we know through discernment makes much more sense to us?
As we are instructed from Scripture, we are to search out the Scripture to determine if that which we hear from another is contained therein. The "we" in this admonishment is not the isolated Lone Ranger, but the corporate "we" of the church.

Is it okay to continue believing one interpretation if we know there is a more accurate one available?
No. 2 Cor. 10:5

What would prevent us from accepting a more true interpretation of the scriptures were it to be presented to us?
All should feed their faith and starve their doubts by not neglecting daily Scripture study, rejoicing in hope, being patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer (Romans 12:12), fellowship with other believers, keeping good stewardship of the secular and spiritual gifts God has given them—including how and where their time is being spent—and with regular assembly with others to worship God, receive instruction, access the ordinary means of grace, and be subject to discipline (see also here, and Genesis 15:1-6; Prov. 3:5-8; Romans 5:1-11; Eph. 6, 1 Cor. 9:24-27; Hebrews 10:19-25, 35-39; Hebrews 11:1,6).

AMR
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Na, plenty of early believers held a more esoteric view and interpretation that fits into the spiritual kingdom being within, which the clues for such beliefs is found in the words of the spirit concerning a more excellent way that transcends the intellectual prowess theology prides its self in rather the simple truth for all people, which is that scripture is allegorically just as valid as the literal historic version wants to claim is the only way, which frankly has little truth to back it up outside the hallowed halls of worldly excepted churchology.
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
"Other". Sigh.

One way: literal, historical-grammatical.

From God. God spoke through the superintendence of the Holy Spirit through the writers. Scripture is very Word of God in the words of men as the words of God.

The One interpreter is infallible. The other, man, is not. ;)

The literal translation is the one that means exactly what it was intended to mean and be so understood thereby. "Literal" does not mean wooden, for literal considers the writer's intent by focusing upon his words in their plain, most obvious sense, e.g., genre, figures of speech, the symbols, the types, the allegories, etc.

Interpretation is done in community, as per Scripture, in the admonishment to follow the patterns of sound speech. That community is the saints, who in community declare "We confess..." Scripture knows nothing of Lone Ranger, Just Me and My Bible believers.

Yes, unless it is the correct translation. ;)

Scripture defines that entity: the church.

The church that received (not declared as per Romanism) the canon so delivered unto it by God.

There is but one correct interpretation of Scripture, said correct interpretation inclusive of what that particular verse intended. None of which means the analogy of faith found by good and necessary consequence of the full counsel of Scripture is contradicted.

Scripture is innately perspicuous. This does not mean there are "hard sayings" therein. But it does mean that it is perspicuous in and of itself and that its teachings are not beyond the grasp of the believer who is willing to commit him or her selves to its study. That mystery is admitted of Scripture, as in the Incarnation or the Trinity, is no warrant to claim Scripture is not innately perspicuous. What is revealed is within our grasp to apprehend in varying degrees of measure, great to some, less to others, but to each according to his or her gifts and abilities.

As we are instructed from Scripture, we are to search out the Scripture to determine if that which we hear from another is contained therein. The "we" in this admonishment is not the isolated Lone Ranger, but the corporate "we" of the church.

No. 2 Cor. 10:5

All should feed their faith and starve their doubts by not neglecting daily Scripture study, rejoicing in hope, being patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer (Romans 12:12), fellowship with other believers, keeping good stewardship of the secular and spiritual gifts God has given them—including how and where their time is being spent—and with regular assembly with others to worship God, receive instruction, access the ordinary means of grace, and be subject to discipline (see also here, and Genesis 15:1-6; Prov. 3:5-8; Romans 5:1-11; Eph. 6, 1 Cor. 9:24-27; Hebrews 10:19-25, 35-39; Hebrews 11:1,6).

AMR

If the scriptures are literal then why haven't you plucked your eye out? Those were the very words of Jesus so go ahead and just do it right now. Take a selfie for everyone to see while you're at it.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Na, plenty of early believers held a more esoteric view and interpretation that fits into the spiritual kingdom being within, which the clues for such beliefs is found in the words of the spirit concerning a more excellent way that transcends the intellectual prowess theology prides its self in rather the simple truth for all people, which is that scripture is allegorically just as valid as the literal historic version wants to claim is the only way, which frankly has little truth to back it up outside the hallowed halls of worldly excepted churchology.

That makes as much sense as a space shuttle getting lodged in
someones ear canal.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
If the scriptures are literal then why haven't you plucked your eye out? Those were the very words of Jesus so go ahead and just do it right now. Take a selfie for everyone to see while you're at it.

No offence intended, but, you seem a wee bit imbecilic. Why do you
think he should pluck his eyeball out? What's your reasoning behind
that conclusion? If you're willing to admit to being a moron, I'll drop
the subject. Is that fair?
 
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