ECT If MAD is False What Does Hebrews 6:4-6 Mean for Us?

Tattooed Theist

Tattooed Theist

New member
DAN P said:
Hi and it OBVIOUS that Israel has been given RED LIGHT that Repentance will never be allowed as written in Heb 6:1 !!

And verse 2 says that Water Baptism also is OUT !!

dan p
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Water baptism being "out" is a direct conflict to Jesus' command in Matthew 28:18

These are the types of contradictions that make me very wary of MAD. It seems that they value the apostles word over Jesus'.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The expression 'rightly divide' in Tim does not mean what you are doing here. That use of that verse is one of the greatest disasters of understanding out there. As though what we are supposed to look for is compartment after compartment of 2P2P.
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What is the word of the truth, in the context? And, how do YOU rightly divide the word of truth, Sanford & Son?
 
Tattooed Theist

Tattooed Theist

New member
SaulToPaul said:
Do you value this?

Matthew 15:24(KJV)
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I value the greater context of the passage.
In which a woman begs for Jesus to heal her daughter.
The disciples, in frustration, asking Jesus to have her depart form them.
To which Jesus replies, with your pulled half-hazardly out of context verse, - Matthew 15:24

Jesus does not reject her, but grants her plea.
Did he not heal the daughter in Matthew 15:28 ?

This, is my primary issue with MAD.
I've never had a conversation where a verse or set of verses
wasn't pulled poorly from the greater context (historical, audience)
and asserted to be able to stand on it's own.
There is no single verse that should, or can, stand alone.
Context always matters.

I hope you do not take offense, none of this is meant to offend,
but rather just the voicing of my own exegetical adventures through scripture.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Tattooed Theist said:
I value the greater context of the passage.
In which a woman begs for Jesus to heal her daughter.
The disciples, in frustration, asking Jesus to have her depart form them.
To which Jesus replies, with your pulled half-hazardly out of context verse, - Matthew 15:24

Jesus does not reject her, but grants her plea.
Did he not heal the daughter in Matthew 15:28 ?

This, is my primary issue with MAD.
I've never had a conversation where a verse or set of verses
wasn't pulled poorly from the greater context (historical, audience)
and asserted to be able to stand on it's own.
There is no single verse that should, or can, stand alone.
Context always matters.

I hope you do not take offense, none of this is meant to offend,
but rather just the voicing of my own exegetical adventures through scripture.
Click to expand...

Did he lie?
Matthew 15:24 (KJV)
 
Tattooed Theist

Tattooed Theist

New member
SaulToPaul said:
Did he lie?
Matthew 15:24 (KJV)
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Did Jesus not also tell his own mother no, and then do what she asked anyway?
Does not every ministry have a focus? Would Jesus' ministry be any different?

He had a focus, he gave His disciples a focus, as well.
Matthew 10:5-6

Paul also preached to the Jews first. As we see in Romans.

Priority does not change doctrine, priority changes timing and method.
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Tattooed Theist said:
Paul saying that he himself was not sent during that specific time (or at all for that matter) to baptize does not at all in any way shape or form discount water baptism...
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Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize,

You have the liberty to dunk, sprinkle, splash all you want, nevertheless one must recognize that Paul exempts himself from the so-called 'great commission' of Mt 28:19 and one must ask the question, "On whose authority does he do this?" The obvious answer is, "Christ's authority." If this is so then one must acknowledge Paul's special commission from the ascended Lord as being distinct from the Lord's commission to the twelve while on earth.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Tattooed Theist said:
Did Jesus not also tell his own mother no, and then do what she asked anyway?
Does not every ministry have a focus? Would Jesus' ministry be any different?

He had a focus, he gave His disciples a focus, as well.
Matthew 10:5-6

Paul also preached to the Jews first. As we see in Romans.

Priority does not change doctrine, priority changes timing and method.
Click to expand...

Was the LORD Jesus sent to Gentiles while he was on earth?
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
steko said:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize,

You have the liberty to dunk, sprinkle, splash all you want, nevertheless one must recognize that Paul exempts himself from the so-called 'great commission' of Mt 28:19 and one must ask the question, "On whose authority does he do this?" The obvious answer is, "Christ's authority." If this is so then one must acknowledge Paul's special commission from the ascended Lord as being distinct from the Lord's commission to the twelve while on earth.
Click to expand...

For the life of me, I don't understand why people fight against this distinction.
 
Tattooed Theist

Tattooed Theist

New member
steko said:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize,

You have the liberty to dunk, sprinkle, splash all you want, nevertheless one must recognize that Paul exempts himself from the so-called 'great commission' of Mt 28:19 and one must ask the question, "On whose authority does he do this?" The obvious answer is, "Christ's authority." If this is so then one must acknowledge Paul's special commission from the ascended Lord as being distinct from the Lord's commission to the twelve while on earth.
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How is that at all 'obviously Christ'? Does Paul explain that from a revelation?
Your essentially given Paul absolute authority to change doctrine, to make void
that which Jesus commands, on the assumption that Paul received
divine revelation on the matter. I'm not willing to disobey Jesus based on an assumption.

Beyond that, If he did receive revelation of that, it still wouldn't change a command
of Jesus. Many are called or "sent" out into the world for different things.
It does not make void any command of Jesus, at all, ever.
 
Tattooed Theist

Tattooed Theist

New member
steko said:
See what I mean?
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Let me provide an illustration.

In the state of Florida, marijuana is illegal.
My personal view is that smoking weed recreationally isn't necessary and I don't see the point.
There are better ways to use your time.

BUT, If my daughter contracted or developed a disease that marijuana could treat or cure, I would send her
to my home town in Colorado to receive that treatment.

My son, on the other hand, has no reason to go to Colorado, or to begin using marijuana.

What is directed to one, does not mean it is directed to all.
 
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