ECT If MAD is False What Does Hebrews 6:4-6 Mean for Us?

L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Thanks for reminding me--

Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

See my new thread on Rev.ch 6.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Lazy afternoon said:
Those of the tree of the old covenant were all cut off, even Christ Himself was.

The grafting into again, is reference to a new tree which began with the resurrection of Christ.

In both cases the roots of both trees remained the same.




LA
Click to expand...




"Remained the same" needs to mean 'remained as they were.' Not 'remained one and the same.' God's elect or remnant always was those who had faith, not ancestry or ethnos.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Interplanner said:
"Remained the same" needs to mean 'remained as they were.' Not 'remained one and the same.' God's elect or remnant always was those who had faith, not ancestry or ethnos.
Click to expand...

That which remained the same was the roots of the tree, not the above ground part.

Christ was the beginning of a new above ground tree which grew out of the roots.

There are not two trees, only one.

The tree is a description of the elect living this side of the resurrection.

Only in the resurrection will the elect of all ages be raised together into the one tree (though no longer a tree)though accounted as being such in Gods eyes.

There is no Jewish tree and another for the gentiles.

In every age there is only the one tree, not two as the devils claim.

LA
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Danoh said:
Which is why, contrary to the error of SOME; Romans 11's "cut off" "graft...back in" is NOT about salvation.

Those opposed to MAD are not the only one's inconsistent on some things.
Click to expand...


Hi Danoh and then Read Rom 11:11 and SALVATION came to the Gentiles , what does that mean ??

dan p
 
D

Danoh

New member
DAN P said:
Hi Danoh and then Read Rom 11:11 and SALVATION came to the Gentiles , what does that mean ??

dan p
Click to expand...

It refers to direct access to possession of salvation.

Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

But access is not possession.

Possession is by faith.

Though standest by faith.

A door (faith) has been opened - here is a direct, standing (temporary) offer to an eternal standing before God inside the room (fellow citizens with the saints).

You want it?

Believe.

Thou standest by faith.

When said temporary offer is cut off when it reaches its intended fulness; those who turned out not really having believed will find themselves cut off.

Just as unbelieving Israel found itself on the outside looking in as a nation, when their direct access was cut off.

And there are two issues here.

That one, and the issue of agency.

God's present Dispensation will also end with mass failure - his present agency largely having failed to understand, let alone, walk in, the grace of the gospel of our salvation much beyond Christ died for our sins (if this much; as many confuse it with works of some kind).

As a result, said agency will have been found to have largely failed it's responsibility.

The vile some ever spit at anyone who does not agree with so called MAD even as they assert they have the gospel of grace...is also one of those failures.

Thankfully, very few MADs appear to go that ever one sided route against anyone who does not hold to MAD.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Danoh said:
It refers to direct access to possession of salvation.

Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

But access is not possession.

Possession is by faith.

Though standest by faith.

A door (faith) has been opened - here is a direct, standing (temporary) offer to an eternal standing before God inside the room (fellow citizens with the saints).

You want it?

Believe.

Thou standest by faith.

When said temporary offer is cut off when it reaches its intended fulness; those who turned out not really having believed will find themselves cut off.

Just as unbelieving Israel found itself on the outside looking in as a nation, when their direct access was cut off.

And there are two issues here.

That one, and the issue of agency.

God's present Dispensation will also end with mass failure - his present agency largely having failed to understand, let alone, walk in, the grace of the gospel of our salvation much beyond Christ died for our sins (if this much; as many confuse it with works of some kind).

As a result, said agency will have been found to have largely failed it's responsibility.

The vile some ever spit at anyone who does not agree with so called MAD even as they assert they have the gospel of grace...is also one of those failures.

Thankfully, very few MADs appear to go that ever one sided route against anyone who does not hold to MAD.
Click to expand...


Hi and their is MASS FAILURE , and God has then FAILED and then blame us as Dispensatioalists for that Failure , you have to be KIDDING !!

You have then had a PASTOR who FAILED you in presenting GRACE !!

dan p
 
D

Danoh

New member
DAN P said:
Hi and their is MASS FAILURE , and God has then FAILED and then blame us as Dispensatioalists for that Failure , you have to be KIDDING !!

You have then had a PASTOR who FAILED you in presenting GRACE !!

dan p
Click to expand...

You have a serious...reading comprehension problem :chuckle:

As poor as your "well the Greek tense is this...so therefore this other thing" you continually fail to prove...is actually connected.

You are another who mostly parrots what you heard or read.

Only you add to that your attempt to prove it sound through one Greek tense or another...never really proving that what you are asserting about one Greek tense or another actually leads to the conclusion you assert it does.

MOST MADS on here who post, do not use this road to nowhere approach of yours :chuckle:

But, hey Barn, Andy's on your team; try that with him...

The thing to do DanP, is to take a chill pill and reread the above a dozen times, lol

It was...not...against all...anyone...in general...duh-uh...as usual :chuckle:
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Lighthouse said:
If MAD is False What Does Hebrews 6:4-6 Mean for Us?

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
-Hebrews 6:4-6
Click to expand...
I think it means, to heed what the Church teaches, especially concerning the sacrament of reconciliation/penance/confession. It could be that Hebrews was written before the Apostles had fully developed their teaching on this particular sacrament, but I don't think so. Regardless, the Church does not teach that there is ever no hope, no matter what one may do, or what one may have done. If independent interpreters of the Scripture come to a different conclusion than what the Church has been teaching since the first century, then I would lean towards the Church's teaching, and that's what Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV) means to me.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Danoh said:
You have a serious...reading comprehension problem :chuckle:

As poor as your "well the Greek tense is this...so therefore this other thing" you continually fail to prove...is actually connected.

You are another who mostly parrots what you heard or read.

Only you add to that your attempt to prove it sound through one Greek tense or another...never really proving that what you are asserting about one Greek tense or another actually leads to the conclusion you assert it does.

MOST MADS on here who post, do not use this road to nowhere approach of yours :chuckle:

But, hey Barn, Andy's on your team; try that with him...

The thing to do DanP, is to take a chill pill and reread the above a dozen times, lol

It was...not...against all...anyone...in general...duh-uh...as usual :chuckle:
Click to expand...


Hi and then prove your theology and show HOW Paul was saved in Actys 9:6 , GRASSHOPPER !!

Lets see you PARROT ??

dan p
 
D

Danoh

New member
DAN P said:
Hi and then prove your theology and show HOW Paul was saved in Actys 9:6 , GRASSHOPPER !!

Lets see you PARROT ??

dan p
Click to expand...

We went over that some years back on that other forum, and again, about two years ago on here.

To what end?

To satisfy your repeatedly fool insistence that one must prove a thing to you in your fool belief that this is some sort of a competition.

There is no grace in that. None.

You and your kind actually think this is some sort of a competition.

What fools :chuckle:
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Danoh said:
We went over that some years back on that other forum, and again, about two years ago on here.

To what end?

To satisfy your repeatedly fool insistence that one must prove a thing to you in your fool belief that this is some sort of a competition.

There is no grace in that. None.

You and your kind actually think this is some sort of a competition.

What fools :chuckle:
Click to expand...


Hi and we see that you do NOT KNOW how Paul was saved , and you are just BLOVIATING !!

dan p
 
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Nihilo said:
I think it means, to heed what the Church teaches, especially concerning the sacrament of reconciliation/penance/confession. It could be that Hebrews was written before the Apostles had fully developed their teaching on this particular sacrament, but I don't think so. Regardless, the Church does not teach that there is ever no hope, no matter what one may do, or what one may have done. If independent interpreters of the Scripture come to a different conclusion than what the Church has been teaching since the first century, then I would lean towards the Church's teaching, and that's what Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV) means to me.
Click to expand...
Even if the church history contradicts Scripture? That's foolishness.

The correct thing to do when that appears to be the case is to study the Scriptures to see if you're reading it wrong, or if the rules changed at a later time. And to follow up on why the church teaches as it does. If it turns out that that one of the two reasons above applies then that should line up with the church's reason for teaching an apparent face value contradiction. If you read it correctly and the rules didn't change and the church disagrees then the church is wrong.
 
Last edited:
Nihilo

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Lighthouse said:
Even if the church history contradicts Scripture? That's foolishness.

The correct thing to do when that appears to be the case is to study the Scriptures to see if you're reading it wrong, or if the rules changed at a later time. And to followup on why the church teaches as it does. If it turns out that that one of the two reasons above applies then that should line up with the church's reason for teaching an apparent face value contradiction. If you read it correctly and the rules didn't change and the church disagrees then the church is wrong.
Click to expand...
The only people in Scripture with the authority to judge the Church are the Lord, His Apostles, and the bishops.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top