Pardon me for backtracking a bit, but I quoted from your two most recent answers to my posts.
Those aren't contradictory. The first merely gives the scientific definition, and the second gives the consequences. Evolution is a change in allele frequency in a population. Speciation is a consequence of that change. Evolution can happen without speciation.
It cites Darwin's theory, (and says so) which is not current evolutionary theory. Darwin merely noted natural selection produced descent with modification. Modern evolutionary theory adds Mendel's discovery.
Which is true. But the proper scientific definition is the one I gave you. Has been since the "modern synthesis following the re-discovery of Mendel's work.
Ah--so there's a non-proper definition being propagated by a scientific site? Wasn't that my point? Thanks for proving it.
Well, let's take a look...
Darwin's Theory of Evolution: Definition & Evidence - Live Science
https://www.livescience.com › History
May 13, 2015 -
The theory of evolution by natural selection, first formulated in Darwin's book "On the Origin of Species" in 1859, is the process by which organisms change over time as a result of changes in heritable physical or behavioral traits.
This one is Darwin's theory, formulated before genetics. It's accurate, but leaves out the fact that it's due to changes in alleles (different versions of the same gene). But it does say that it's Darwin's theory, not the modern theory which was changed to include genetics.
The others are variously inaccurate, which is why you have to be very careful about getting definitions of scientific terms from sources that don't have much to do with science.
You mean like On the Origin of Species, for instance? :devil:
Darwin's term was "descent with modification." He used the word "evolution" once that I know about in his book (the last word in the book in one edition). But he used it in the formal sense of "changed."
Ever wonder why we use the term "descent" when talking about those that come after? Descent has a pretty obvious definition. Here's Dictionary.com's back story on the word:
Word story. Descent has been in the English language since the 14th century. The French word from which it descends, descendre, ultimately comes from a Latin term whose literal meaning is “to climb” (scandre) “down” (de-).
Far as I know, the ability of populations to change over time was not called "evolution" until later. The notion that organisms could change is pretty old; St. Augustine mentioned it, and by Darwin's time, most people realized that some kind of change must happen. Lamark, for example had a theory before Darwin, which turned out to be wrong in almost all cases. Don't think he called it "evolution" though. Everything I've read from him called it "acquired characteristics."
I guess it's worth checking to see how much Darwin actually used the word in other works.
Here's one quote from his "The Descent of Man" (in which my search revealed some 24 uses):
"To maintain, independently of any direct evidence, that no animal during the course of ages has progressed in intellect or other mental faculties, is to beg the question of the evolution of species."
Thus, Darwin equated evolution with not just "change" but with progression, and certainly not just with a frequency of a particular characteristic, for which, despite the lack of the futuristic term "allele", he could easily have found words. Progression, interestingly enough, would be more synonymous with ascent, rather than descent.
(excerpt from thesaurus.com)
Word Origin & History
progress early 15c., "a going on, action of walking forward," from O.Fr. progres, from L. progressus (see progression). Figurative sense of "growth, development, advancement to higher stages" is from c.1600. The verb is attested from c.1590 in the lit. sense, c.1600 in the fig. sense. |
One more thing about that quote. "Begging the question" as we all understand, hopefully, around here, means to assume the conclusion. Darwin's use is not that, though, as he uses it to mean "avoid the question".
I counted 24 uses of the word "evolution" in "Descent of Man", all of which seem to convey the same sort of meaning as above. Thus, even Darwin's title, "The Descent of Man" is oxymoronic with its content, which is "The Ascent of Man".
And you wonder why dictionaries (non-creationistic, non-theistic, mostly evolution-loving) have a hard time figuring out what scientists are talking about, since they obviously don't agree with each other on this basic use of a word.
