If Evolution

[Stripe]

It's not different at all. You're just trapped and you know it you weasel.

:darwinsm:

You don't know the difference between addition and subtraction, but Six is a weasel?

:mock: Bruce.

You can't tell me how one fins hurts or helps in comparison to two. The only thing you are accomplished at is not answering questions. That's a neutral mutation, 6. It has 0 effect on the sharks. I know that bc it is present in the population, but not universal. If it was negative, it would be rare at best. If it was positive, it would be everywhere. Again: the mutation has 0 effect, hence it is neutral. It's pretty simple

It must be the way I say it is, because Darwinism!

This is the fallacy of begging the question. Your conclusions rely on assuming the truth of your Darwinsm.

Does it bother you that only stupid or ignorant people believe as you do? That your "evidence" is laughed at in every school in the world? That every scientist worth his salt either believes in a 4.5 billion year old Earth OR honestly (and admirably) admits that the evidence doesn't fit his theological views?

:yawn:

I don't really think you're a coward or a bad person, 6. But your inability to have a straight conversation is cowardly

You're all bluster, aren't you?

 

[marhig]

We can discuss evidence from the world around us; but first, wouldn't you agree that the best evidence for anything is God's word? Do you accept the genealogies from first Adam to last Adam as one evidence? If we don't use God's word as the starting point for interpreting evidence of the world around us, we aren't going to find agreement.

Yes the best evidence is God's word, so, can you show me where it says in the Bible that the world is only 6000 years old?

And yes, I do accept the genealogies back to Adam, but not as an indication as to when the world was created. Nothing there says that the world was created 6000 years ago.

As for evidence from the world around us, there is plenty of evidence that the world is older than 6000 years. As I've asked here before, when did dinosaurs exist? Were they alive in the last 6000 years? No one has answered me yet, will you? Thanks

 

[Stripe]

I do accept the genealogies back to Adam, but not as an indication as to when the world was created.

There will be no evidence if you deny all the evidence.

 

[marhig]

And anyway, it's all in God's plan, and it's not important when the world was created. But rather when the ways of the world ends in us, and we begin to live by the will of God.

 

[marhig]

There will be no evidence if you deny all the evidence.

Ok, so you're going by all the evidence, then how did Cain marry someone from another land, if the were no other people? Cain was Adams first born?

 

[Stripe]

And anyway, it's all in God's plan, and it's not important when the world was created. But rather when the ways of the world ends in us, and we begin to live by the will of God.

OK.

You'll have no problem with us declaring that it is about 6,000 years old. :up:

Ok, so you're going by all the evidence, then how did Cain marry someone from another land, if the were no other people? Cain was Adams first born?

:AMR:

You want to talk about Cain now?

 

[marhig]

OK.

You'll have no problem with us declaring that it is about 6,000 years old. :up:

:AMR:

You want to talk about Cain now?

Well how did he marry as there should be no other people around only Adam and his family?

And you can declare what you wish, but I don't agree with it. It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that the world is 6000 years old.

 

[Stripe]

Ok, so you're going by all the evidence, then how did Cain marry someone from another land, if the were no other people? Cain was Adams first born?

This has nothing to do with the subject.

 

[marhig]

Not only did Cain marry, but there were other people there

Genesis 4

Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that EVERY ONE that findeth me shall slay me. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore WHOSOEVER slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, LEST ANY FINDING HIM SHOULD KILL HIM. And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

 

[marhig]

This has nothing to do with the subject.

Yes it has, if you go by the genealogies back to Adam to determine when the world was created, then I take it that you are saying that Adam was the first man in the world? So where did all the other people come from? I.E. Cain's wife and all the other people that Cain was worried about, those whom he said to the LORD might kill him?

 

[marhig]

There is a natural and a spiritual, first came Moses and the prophets with the laws to put sin to death in us, then came Jesus Christ by the Spirit to bare witness to the truth and to bring the life to us and if we repent, believe and truly follow him, then hopefully we receive that life within us, through Christ, by the grace of God through faith.

There is a natural beginning and a spiritual beginning. The Bible is also full of deeper meanings. Genesis isn't all natural it is also spiritual.

 

[Stripe]

Yes it has, if you go by the genealogies back to Adam to determine when the world was created, then I take it that you are saying that Adam was the first man in the world? So where did all the other people come from? I.E. Cain's wife and all the other people that Cain was worried about, those whom he said to the LORD might kill him?

If you take it back to Adam, that establishes an age.

There's the evidence.

If you reject the genealogies, then we can discuss other evidence.

 

[6days]

Yes the best evidence is God's word, so, can you show me where it says in the Bible that the world is only 6000 years old?

The Bible has about 4000 years of geneaologies from "the beginning", to the time of Jesus. Matthew 19:14.

And yes, I do accept the genealogies back to Adam, but not as an indication as to when the world was created. Nothing there says that the world was created 6000 years ago.

Humans were created on the 6th day. The context in Hebrew prevents both a pre-existing time, and longer periods of time.

As for evidence from the world around us, there is plenty of evidence that the world is older than 6000 years. As I've asked here before, when did dinosaurs exist? Were they alive in the last 6000 years? No one has answered me yet, will you? Thanks

There is also plenty of evidence from the world around us that the universe is young. (Comets can't last billions of years, missing population 3 stars, helium diffusion rates etc). Dinosaurs... Gen. 1:25-31

 

[6days]

Yes it has, if you go by the genealogies back to Adam to determine when the world was created, then I take it that you are saying that Adam was the first man in the world? So where did all the other people come from? I.E. Cain's wife and all the other people that Cain was worried about, those whom he said to the LORD might kill him?

If you are imagining pre-existing people, then you seem to imagine that God created using a process of pain, suffering and death. You also would seem to reject the reason Christ went to the cross. If God created using a process of death, then why did Jesus have to defeat it?

 

[6days]

Not only did Cain marry, but there were other people there

Genesis 4

Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that EVERY ONE that findeth me shall slay me. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore WHOSOEVER slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, LEST ANY FINDING HIM SHOULD KILL HIM. And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Cain married a sister (not immoral / not a sin until Levitical law). Cain built a city and he had hundreds of years to do it. (There would be many thousands of people by then).

 

[marhig]

Cain married a sister (not immoral / not a sin until Levitical law). Cain built a city and he had hundreds of years to do it. (There would be many thousands of people by then).

You say that as if it were fact, yet that's not in the scriptures. Where does it say in the Bible that Cain married his sister? It doesn't. Cain married a wife from another land.

 

[marhig]

If you are imagining pre-existing people, then you seem to imagine that God created using a process of pain, suffering and death. You also would seem to reject the reason Christ went to the cross. If God created using a process of death, then why did Jesus have to defeat it?

What do you mean by I seem to imagine God created using a process of pain, suffering and death? I don't imagine any such thing, that didn't even come into my mind. Please don't say what you believe I'm thinking, because I'm certainly not.

I believe that God created in the day, which is in the light of God, not in a 24 hour period, and certainly not the way you have described!

 

[Interplanner]

Sorry for the topic shift, but Dr. Clary on ICR on details of Noah catastrophe was superlative yesterday. Icr.org. I just can't find storage of the 20 min broadcast. I've written to editor@icr.org.

Extensive details on the denial of marine/mammal fossil piles together throughout Africa, Australia, N. America. On the amounts of sedimentary movement in the phases of the flood, with new terminology being worked out like 'asaricus' for the first month, 'zudi' for the period from that to the 150th day, then 'recessive' from there to the end.

He had a N. American English accent... Unlike some other geologists, he had excellent verbal delivery.

 

[Interplanner]

re Marhig:
As for evidence from the world around us, there is plenty of evidence that the world is older than 6000 years. As I've asked here before, when did dinosaurs exist? Were they alive in the last 6000 years? No one has answered me yet, will you? Thanks

I think 10K is more realistic, but that aside, I guess you are unaware of how much soft tissue is being found in dinosaur 'piles.' And then there is huge question of the artwork rocks of Nasca, Peru. The collection was originally about 13K in number. They are exceptionally realistic in depiction and scale. they have been horribly treated, but among the records of official custodians, such as the Peruvian Navy, you will find things like this: about 1/3 of them are about humans interacting with dinosaurs, being shown fighting against them or riding on them (which includes the assumption of much larger humans at that time before the catastrophe of Noah).

 

[6days]

You say that as if it were fact, yet that's not in the scriptures. Where does it say in the Bible that Cain married his sister? It doesn't. Cain married a wife from another land.

You are right it may not have been a sister. It possibly could be a niece. In either case it would have been a close relative and a descendant of Adam and Eve. And we don't know when Cain got married, it may have been a hundred years later.

What do you mean by I seem to imagine God created using a process of pain, suffering and death?

Maybe I misunderstood... it seemed like you were suggesting pre-adamite people.

I believe that God created in the day, which is in the light of God

Sripture tells us in 6 days God created the heavens and the Earth and everything in them.

not in a 24 hour period, and certainly not the way you have described.

I don't know if I described how God created. I did quote a little bit from the Bible though. The context of the word day in Genesis one does not allow for anything other than what we refer to as a 24-hour day. We can look at the context of the word throughout scripture and it has a variety of meetings which is always determined by the context. Why would we ignore the context or exegesis for the one chapter in the Bible?