I, YHWH, the first, and the last, I am He.

[Elia]

For I know that my redeemer גָּאַל gâʼal
liveth, and that he shall stand
at the latter day upon the earth
- Job 19:25
written prior to Abraham

Bs"d

And who was his redeemer?

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my Redeemer."
Psalm 19:14

"Thus says Y-H-W-H, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: ..... "
Isaiah 43:14

"Thus says Y-H-W-H, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am Y-H-W-H, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;"
Isaiah 44:24

"Their Redeemer is strong; Y-H-W-H of hosts is His name."
Jeremiah 50:34

"Thus says Y-H-W-H, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: “I am Y-H-W-H your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go."
Isaiah 48:17

 

[Elia]

God reveals Himself in three personas.

Bs"d

No He does not. There is only one God who is one, and that is Y-H-W-H.

And He does not reveal Himself in different persons who are talking to each other.

In the beginning of Christianity, somewhere in the third century, a Biblical scholar reared his head, his name was Sabelius, and he claimed that the Christian God, the father, son, and holy ghost, were three different manifestations of of the same God, just like steam, water, and ice, are three manifestations of one substance; H2O.

The result of this brilliant insight was that he was branded a heretic, and excommunicated. Then already the church realized that this is impossible.
When you say that it is all the same God, only in a different form, then you say that God is his own son, and at the same time his own father.

Then when Christ prays to his father, God is praying to himself.

Luke 22:41-42; Christ is praying, "saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."
So here God had a different will than himself?

Even in heaven Christ is subjugated to the father according to 1 Corr 15:28, Matthew 20:23, Fill 2:9.
So God is subjugated to himself?


When Christ was hanging on the cross, he cried out: "My God, my God, why did you forsake me?"
Did God forsake himself?

Col 3:1; "keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God."
God is sitting on his own right hand?

God died on the cross, slaughtered by his creatures?
If so, who resurrected him?

The theory of Sabelius is impossible.

 

[Elia]

It wasn't the case during the BC/AD period. The predominant theology in Judaism was "Two Powers in Heaven" (as illustrated in Daniel 7:13-14). However, Yeshua was rejected by the Jewish leadership due to their own "self-righteousness". Judaism was given almost 40 years to repent, afterwhich the Temple was destroyed, and Judaism with it.

Bs"d

Judaism never had a "two powers in heaven" theology.

For 3300 years Judaism teaches that there is one God who is one.



“This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no god.”
Isaiah 44:6

 

[beameup]

Bs"d

Judaism never had a "two powers in heaven" theology.
For 3300 years Judaism teaches that there is one God who is one.

That's because you know-nothing about Mosaic Judaism (BCE), as it vanished
with the Temple in 70 A.D. "Neo-Judaism" or "Judaism 2.0" was created post-70 AD.
And then your rabbis and sages have had 2,000 years to erase all traces of BCE
Judaism and any inkling of Yeshua. Even your beloved Tanakh dates to 1,000 A.D.
If "ignorance is bliss", then you should be one very ecstatic individual indeed.
Did you get your Yeshiva refund yet? :rotfl:

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. - Daniel 7:13-14

 

[beameup]

Bs"d

And who was his redeemer?

The one who stands upon the earth in the latter days.

Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
And YHWH shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. - Zechariah 14:13-14, 9

 

[chair]

For one, you're muddling the line between 'modalism' and 'trinitarianism'. Modalism posits that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 'modes' of God. Trinitarianism posits that they are three distinct and coexisting beings.

Thank you for clarifying. Your previous post had me thinking you were talking about modalism

But you see, the Trinity was instead established, and it was established for several reasons.
The most important one is that Isaiah is really the author of the Trinity even if he didn't fully realize it- John makes it clear in his scripture. But a lot of Christians were nonetheless modalists up until a man named cnoticed inconsistencies.

In reality, you can't actually deny the Trinity without contradicting the Bible. The Jews were expecting a warrior-king for a messiah- you need to stop acting as if they had it all right, especially being that they crucified him lain:

You are welcome to start a thread explaining this. I'd rather not derail this one further than it has been.

 

[Crucible]

Bs"d

No He does not. There is only one God who is one, and that is Y-H-W-H.

And He does not reveal Himself in different persons who are talking to each other.

In the beginning of Christianity, somewhere in the third century, a Biblical scholar reared his head, his name was Sabelius, and he claimed that the Christian God, the father, son, and holy ghost, were three different manifestations of of the same God, just like steam, water, and ice, are three manifestations of one substance; H2O.

The result of this brilliant insight was that he was branded a heretic, and excommunicated. Then already the church realized that this is impossible.
When you say that it is all the same God, only in a different form, then you say that God is his own son, and at the same time his own father.

This post should have really been directed at you:

*Bump*

For one, you're muddling the line between 'modalism' and 'trinitarianism'. Modalism posits that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 'modes' of God. Trinitarianism posits that they are three distinct and coexisting beings.

Your rigid monotheism has always been a rarity with religion- most ancient people had a polytheist view, and so it would have been very easy for Rome or any other conquering nation to simply make Christianity polytheistic- the Bible has passages which imply God is mightier than other gods, that gods are among men, and that men their selves can be gods.

In fact, because of this, Rome and Greece came close to basically equating God to Chronos, Jesus as Zeus, Mary as Mithras, and so on.

But you see, the Trinity was instead established, and it was established for several reasons.
The most important one is that Isaiah is really the author of the Trinity even if he didn't fully realize it- John makes it clear in his scripture. But a lot of Christians were nonetheless modalists up until a man named Tertulian noticed inconsistencies.

In reality, you can't actually deny the Trinity without contradicting the Bible. The Jews were expecting a warrior-king for a messiah- you need to stop acting as if they had it all right, especially being that they crucified him lain:

The fact is that you're a reason why Christianity has been antisemitic for most of it's history- when you sit there and defend your standing by those you deem heretics calling someone else a heretic when it suits you, but altogether calling them all stupid.
People don't like Jews because you all are manipulators. Christians are off trying to set Israel right while Islam wants you all culled and proselytized, why don't you go harass them :idunno:

 

[daqq]

This post should have really been directed at you:

*Bump*


The fact is that you're a reason why Christianity has been antisemitic for most of it's history- when you sit there and defend your standing by those you deem heretics calling someone else a heretic when it suits you, but altogether calling them all stupid.
People don't like Jews because you all are manipulators. Christians are off trying to set Israel right while Islam wants you all culled and proselytized, why don't you go harass them :idunno:

The Calvinite leopard shows his spots. :chuckle:

 

[chair]

...

The fact is that you're a reason why Christianity has been antisemitic for most of it's history- when you sit there and defend your standing by those you deem heretics calling someone else a heretic when it suits you, but altogether calling them all stupid.
People don't like Jews because you all are manipulators. Christians are off trying to set Israel right while Islam wants you all culled and proselytized, why don't you go harass them :idunno:

I am repeatedly astounded at the amount of classic raw antisemitism on this site. Like the above, which blames the Jews for antisemitism, calls Jews (as a group!)manipulators etc.

Disgusting. You should be ashamed to pour out such hatred. I suspect that you are actually proud of your bigotry. Disgusting.

 

[Crucible]

I am repeatedly astounded at the amount of classic raw antisemitism on this site. Like the above, which blames the Jews for antisemitism, calls Jews (as a group!)manipulators etc.

Disgusting. You should be ashamed to pour out such hatred. I suspect that you are actually proud of your bigotry. Disgusting.

:blabla:

The Jews think they are better than other people and see them as goyim. You amplify my dislike of them as 'disgusting hatred', because you simply follow the simpleton narrative like a sheep moron.

 

[chair]

:blabla:

The Jews think they are better than other people and see them as goyim. You amplify my dislike of them as 'disgusting hatred', because you simply follow the simpleton narrative like a sheep moron.

You are antisemitic. Your hatred is clear- it does not need any amplification. Even in this post you lump us all together and call us all bigots and sheep morons.

 

[jamie]

The above is of course utter nonsense, on the same level of 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

The kingdom of God is a family just like Israel is a family of nations.

Jacob's name was changed to Israel and his sons carried the family name Israel. For example: Reuben ben Israel, Simeon ben Israel, Levi ben Israel, etc.

Under king David the tribes of Israel were united, i.e. one nation. The concept was carried over to the United States of America, one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

God is a nation, one nation under the Most High. Of course Judaism makes the term "Most High" senseless by claiming there can only be one.

If there is only one person in the family then God is not a family and Israel is not a family and the sons born to Jacob were never Israel. This would mean Israel died long ago and so today there is no Israel. The term "Israel" would refer to a dead man buried in Palestine.

 

[Crucible]

You are antisemitic. Your hatred is clear- it does not need any amplification. Even in this post you lump us all together and call us all bigots and sheep morons.

Jews perpetuate scandal on their own behalves- I've pretty had enough of people calling everything racist or whatever when something doesn't conform to their crap a long time ago. A Muslim is better than a Jew, it's just as true now as it was a thousand years ago- those like yourself are just hypnotized, you jump on the narrative like a dog in heat as soon as someone ~dares criticize the Jews~. You all are indeed sheep morons, let it sink in :wave2:

 

[chair]

Jews perpetuate scandal on their own behalves- I've pretty had enough of people calling everything racist or whatever when something doesn't conform to their crap a long time ago. A Muslim is better than a Jew, it's just as true now as it was a thousand years ago- those like yourself are just hypnotized, you jump on the narrative like a dog in heat as soon as someone ~dares criticize the Jews~. You all are indeed sheep morons, let it sink in :wave2:

If you are trying to convince anybody that you are not a bigot, you are doing a rather poor job of it.

 

[Crucible]

If you are trying to convince anybody that you are not a bigot, you are doing a rather poor job of it.

I don't really care what you think- 'bigoted' is yalls label to everything. Bigoted, racist, sexist, anon anon. It's your shtick to give yourselves a false sense of virtue.

The Jews in Hollywood change their names to blend with the media and spin their agendas. Other Jews have no sense of community, but rather remain exclusive and pride themselves on not being goyim Christians. And then elsewhere they are playing the victim card.

The Antichrist is going to be the one who they claim to be their messiah, the Pope is going to bank in on it, and all of you are going to look stupid for 'supporting Israel' and being racially paranoid sheep :wave2:

 

[daqq]

I am repeatedly astounded at the amount of classic raw antisemitism on this site. Like the above, which blames the Jews for antisemitism, calls Jews (as a group!)manipulators etc.

Disgusting. You should be ashamed to pour out such hatred. I suspect that you are actually proud of your bigotry. Disgusting.

It's classic Calvinism via Luther and his hatred for the Jews because he could not "convert" them. With three out of the three staunch Calvinist-Reformists that I have had heated debates with in this forum, (Dialm, Lon, and now Crucible), this is always bubbling under the surface and eventually comes out. It is because of their "Total Depravity" doctrine which devalues human life as refuse for the fire by accounting anyone who does not agree with their view as being demon possessed animals. Most of Germany leaned toward the Calvinist mindset in one form or another, leading up to World War 2, and in the 1930's Luther pamplets and handouts of his writings and sermons filled the streets. Anyone willing to do a little research into this will find it to be accurate. Crucible and his kind claim to speak for all Christianity but they are really nothing more than a festering boil and an elitist pox on humanity. Thank Elohim they do not rule the world because their mindset is one of a purely political persuasion, and they devalue human life as refuse, and would do the same as has already been done in the past; for according to them what they do was predestined, and therefore whatever they do is what God has willed them to do. That is why Crucible is proud of his stance; he cannot see the error because, in his mind, God is on his side: and who therefore can be against him? He has turned his God into himself so as to justify himself instead of repenting and changing himself.

 

[daqq]

The fact is that you're a reason why Christianity has been antisemitic for most of it's history- when you sit there and defend your standing by those you deem heretics calling someone else a heretic when it suits you, but altogether calling them all stupid.
People don't like Jews because you all are manipulators. Christians are off trying to set Israel right while Islam wants you all culled and proselytized, why don't you go harass them :idunno:

Actually, I'm the reason, and that is because your mother church needed to destroy any remaining evidence of the form of true Judaic Christianity which came from the apostles of Messiah and well before your Roman mother church. :chuckle:

 

[Crucible]

Actually, I'm the reason, and that is because your mother church needed to destroy any remaining evidence of the form of true Judaic Christianity which came from the apostles of Messiah and well before your Roman mother church. :chuckle:

You're just cattle to the Jews, they've never done a single thing for you except make you dance around the authenticity of your own god while they go on the media and mock you.
But you've tended to their needs very well, and so long as John Q Moron hands out his praise you'll keep being adversarial to gentile Christians all the same.
I already know your stance on Muslims without you even having to say a damn thing about it. But because they are Semites, it's fine if they criticize the Jews, right
You're no different than an atheist- you are fundamentally deceptive within your claimed religion, and try to make an appeal through demonizing white culture.

 

[Elia]

God is a nation, one nation under the Most High.

Bs"d

Wrong. God is not physical, so God is not a nation. From where did you get that crazy idea anyway??

If there is only one person in the family then God is not a family and Israel is not a family and the sons born to Jacob were never Israel. This would mean Israel died long ago and so today there is no Israel. The term "Israel" would refer to a dead man buried in Palestine.

God is not a nation, and God is not a family. God is ONE.

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.

Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.

Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPPER.

 

[Elia]

The one who stands upon the earth in the latter days.

Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
And YHWH shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. - Zechariah 14:13-14, 9

Bs"d

So we both agree that Y-H-W-H is the redeemer.