John and Jesus were both born having the Holy Spirit which was not available to others while Jesus was in the flesh. (John 7:37-39)
'I AM' - the Name of God
- Thread starter beameup
- Start date
John and Jesus were both born having the Holy Spirit which was not available to others while Jesus was in the flesh. (John 7:37-39)
beameup
New member
You should know that the RCC wasn't even formed until the 4th century AD.
Perhaps you should read the "early church fathers" that came long before the
Roman State Religion. The "early church fathers" were disciples of the originals.
Mary became pregnant by the Holy Spirit, otherwise there could be no "conception".
Do you cut out large portions of the New Testament to arrive at your "conclusions"?
The Baptism of Yeshua demonstrates that there is a "threesome" in the Godhead = Father/Son/Holy Spirit
keypurr
Well-known member
Peace
You need to expand your thoughts beamup. Your not seeing what is written. Consider that the spirit son of God came as a Dove not as. Baby boy. Jesus was a man, the flesh son of the most high. He is the body God prepared for the true express image of the Father.
Beamup I understand your faith as I have been there, it is misguided. For God's son to become flesh he needed to be something other than a man. God is a spirit and so is his true son. The son that was SENT, not born into this world. The spirit and the flesh were joined at the Baptism of Jesus. The spirit son, Christ, is the first of all creation for all things were created through him.
Peace friend, we all need to keep seeking.
Ben Masada
New member
Jesus did not start his ministry until he got married with Mary Magdalene in Cana of Galilee. And regarding the Holy Spirit of his father...it is too illusory. It leads into two assertions: First the Holy Spirit of HaShem was upon the whole People of Israel as in, "Israel is My Son," said the Lord... (Exodus 4:22,23) and second, that the Holy Spirit of HaShem was upon Joseph the father of Jesus.
Ben Masada
New member
When you say that "Mary became pregnant by the Holy Spirit" you are involuntarily promoting the Greek doctrine of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. (Mat. 1:18) Jesus was a Jew and your words denote Greek Mythology.
Ben Masada
New member
Jesus was a Jew and, as such, he would never adopt such a blatant anti-Jewish doctrine.
You add to Gods word.
The overshadowing of Mary by the Holy Spirit does not equal the coming down from Heaven of an eternal Son to become a fetus in Mary.
LA
beameup
New member
Your view was not shared by every Jew in the first century AD, otherwise, tens of thousands of Jews would not have become believers in Yeshua Messiah. After the REJECTION by Israel and God'd JUDGMENT of Israel (ie: 70 AD), the UNBELIEVING JEWS created an "anti-Yeshua" theology through their Talmud. So, for 2,000 years the attitude toward God's SALVATION is total REJECTION and ABHORRENCE toward Messiah... sort of like the reaction of Dracula when he is shown a cross.
Your posts reflect this "Talmudic" influence (fables & old-wives-tales about Yeshua of Nazareth).
Typical unregenrated flesh-man carnal minded understanding. The scripture says no such thing about a "birth-canal of Mary". The only way to understand is to begin with the parables and allegories of Yeshua, which explain these things, and to begin checking into the original languages because they have been grossly misrepresented in English. For example there really is not a word or combination of words used to actually say that Mary was "pregnant" but rather it says multiple times that she was holding-retaining "en-gastri". However en-gastri means not "in the womb" but rather "in belly", and that is because the seed which Mariam retained was from consuming the Word. It is an allegory of how, once again, Messiah is formed in us, (as Paul says). So the parables about sowing, and the tares, and the earth bringing forth fruit of herself, all these actually explain this process. At the same time gaster can be used in the sense of a glutton, that is, as if a giant belly, (the flesh), along the same lines of the story of Yonah in the belly of the great fish, which in that case is koilia, (cavity), which is also used in the infancy narratives for both Elisheba and Mariam. Yet the same word, koilia, is also used for the heart or at least the chest cavity around the heart. There is always a play on words going on in the holy scriptures because they are HOLY and SPIRIT and have deep supernal meanings which exist beneath the surface text. For the same reason birth, children, sons, etc., are most often spoken of in one form or another with words that have to do with plant life reproduction, (tikto in Greek), and that is because Messiah is the one whose name is Tsemach-Branch. It is all about the seed of the Word in the kingdom of Elohim and has nothing to do with physical procreation and reproduction. Likewise the holy seed lines are all SPIRIT, and that is why the genealogies are father-to-son, and why Messiah is not born of a woman. Mariam is the final typology of Yerushalaim of above; the mother, (covenant), of those born from above. Can a man go back into the womb of his mother and be born a second time? The answer from Yeshua to Nikodemos is, Amen, Yes! and that is because he speaks of going back into the covenant and relearning-renewing the entire covenant(s) according to the Spirit, (of the Testimony of Yeshua).
keypurr
Well-known member
Threesome?
Where does it say they are equal?
When I was a kid I thought like a kid, then I got older and learned about it for myself.
The Holy Spirit is not the Son of God, it was the Holy Spirit that caused the conception of Jesus. (Matthew 1:18)
keypurr
Well-known member
Agree, the express image is the spirit son not the Holy Spirit.
There is only one exact image of God, the spirit son that God created through.
Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app
Ben Masada
New member
Yeshua was a loyal Jew to his Faith which was Judaism and to his gospel which was the Tanach. No Jew would create a Theology against a loyal Jew. Jesus was not the Messiah because the Messiah cannot be an individual but the collective concept of the People, aka Israel the Son of God. Read Exodus 4:22,23 "Israel is My Son," said the Lord. "Let My Son god that he may serve Me." Jesus himself said that salvation comes by listening to "Moses" aka the Law and not by paying homage to an individual Messiah. (Luke 16:29-31) If you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the People.
beameup
New member
So, Israel ceased to exist for almost 2,000 years, therefore none were "saved" during that time-period.
And now that Israel exists once again, we are led to believe that they are fulfilling Isaiah 53, where:
1) It pleased God to punish Israel
2) Israel made its soul an offering for sin
3) Israel shall see the travail of its soul
4) Israel shall justify many
5) Israel shall bear "their" iniquities
6) Israel has poured out its soul unto death
7) Israel has born the sins of "many"