1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
John 2:4
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
'I AM' - the Name of God
- Thread starter beameup
- Start date
John 2:4
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
beameup
New member
As soon then as he [Jesus] had said unto them, I AM,
they went backward, and fell to the ground. - John 18:6
Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is,
when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God,
and those who hear will live. - John 5:25
People are raised from the dead by the voice of Yeshua Messiah!
I'd say that's POWER
they went backward, and fell to the ground. - John 18:6
Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is,
when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God,
and those who hear will live. - John 5:25
People are raised from the dead by the voice of Yeshua Messiah!
I'd say that's POWER
themuzicman
Well-known member
LOL Translating o wn as "the being."
Yes, that is Sir Lancelot Brenton, (still the most popular English rendering of the Septuagint). But that really is not the point. The point is that the Jews who rendered that passage from Hebrew into the Greek Septuagint did not emphasize "εγω ειμι" but rather "ο ων". So the whole argument that whenever Yeshua uses the phrase εγω ειμι he is claiming to be God is based on an understanding that comes not from the true fathers but from the KJV and all the other English translations which have followed the lead of king Jimmy and his court. "HO WN", (ο ων), is likewise a portion of the same NAME of the Almighty used in the opening lines of the book of the Revelation of Yeshua Messiah and means more precisely, "[HE] WHO IS", in that context, (and therefore I actually agree with your sentiments).
Revelation 1:4 W/H
4 ιωαννης ταις επτα εκκλησιαις ταις εν τη ασια χαρις υμιν και ειρηνη απο ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος και απο των επτα πνευματων α ενωπιον του θρονου αυτου
"ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος" = "[HE] WHO IS AND WHO WAS AND WHO IS COMING"
Revelation 1:8 W/H
8 εγω ειμι το αλφα και το ω λεγει κυριος ο θεος ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος ο παντοκρατωρ
8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says YHWH Elohim, WHO IS AND WHO WAS AND WHO IS COMING, The Pantokrator (Almighty).
As may clearly be seen in the above: εγω ειμι is employed in the common way, and is not part of The Name.
themuzicman
Well-known member
Yes, that is Sir Lancelot Brenton, (still the most popular English rendering of the Septuagint). But that really is not the point. The point is that the Jews who rendered that passage from Hebrew into the Greek Septuagint did not emphasize "εγω ειμι" but rather "ο ων". So the whole argument that whenever Yeshua uses the phrase εγω ειμι he is claiming to be God is based on an understanding that comes not from the true fathers but from the KJV and all the other English translations which have followed the lead of king Jimmy and his court. "HO WN", (ο ων), is likewise a portion of the same NAME of the Almighty used in the opening lines of the book of the Revelation of Yeshua Messiah and means more precisely, "[HE] WHO IS", in that context, (and therefore I actually agree with your sentiments).
Revelation 1:4 W/H
4 ιωαννης ταις επτα εκκλησιαις ταις εν τη ασια χαρις υμιν και ειρηνη απο ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος και απο των επτα πνευματων α ενωπιον του θρονου αυτου
"ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος" = "[HE] WHO IS AND WHO WAS AND WHO IS COMING"
Revelation 1:8 W/H
8 εγω ειμι το αλφα και το ω λεγει κυριος ο θεος ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος ο παντοκρατωρ
8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says YHWH Elohim, WHO IS AND WHO WAS AND WHO IS COMING, The Pantokrator (Almighty).
As may clearly be seen in the above: εγω ειμι is employed in the common way, and is not part of The Name.
You are making the rash assumption that every translator will translate a particular word or phrase the same way every time. That's a bad assumption.
And it isn't how hermeneutics works. Context determines meaning. In John 8:58, "I am" is in reference to Jesus being alive in Abraham's time. The only interpretation that makes any sense is that Jesus is claiming to be God.
And if we read on to verse 59, this is confirmed, as the Jews attempt to stone Jesus for blasphemy.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Ego eimi........
Ego eimi........
Please go here to see a synopsis on John 8:58, we've already had 2 threads in the past on this particular passage
Daqq has already addressed the primary point, especially from the Septuagint.
Ego eimi in the greek is NOT the NAME of God, neither can it be equated as the same as the Hebrew 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' in Ex. 3:14, since 'I AM' is an English translation, and even then it is not entirely correct, since the sense of the divine name is more of a verbal quality as in "I Will be what I will be". Also, in the earliest greek texts, all letters were capitalized, so translators keeping 'I AM' in John 8:58 captalized still has no bearing or significance. 'Ego eimi' was a common phrase among greek speaking people of that day used as a matter of 'self-reference'. Other people in the NT used the phrase 'ego eimi' and were not deemed 'God'. Even John 8:58 does not necessarily refer to any 'divinity' whatsoever, but that Jesus existed as one with a greater preeminence than Abraham, even from before Abraham in the mind of God,....as the promised Messiah to come. The Jews wanted to stone Jesus for many different things all adding up to their frustration, not just 'blasphemy' or a claim that he was 'God', since did NOT make this claim,...He did accept being the Son of God, even as they too were sons of God, children of the most high,.....these men even being called 'elohim'! (he quote psalm 82). He was showing his place as the Son of Man/Son of God, a man anointed by God to reveal, represent and proclaim God's word,....this is the Messiah's calling.
Ego eimi........
Please go here to see a synopsis on John 8:58, we've already had 2 threads in the past on this particular passage
Daqq has already addressed the primary point, especially from the Septuagint.
Ego eimi in the greek is NOT the NAME of God, neither can it be equated as the same as the Hebrew 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' in Ex. 3:14, since 'I AM' is an English translation, and even then it is not entirely correct, since the sense of the divine name is more of a verbal quality as in "I Will be what I will be". Also, in the earliest greek texts, all letters were capitalized, so translators keeping 'I AM' in John 8:58 captalized still has no bearing or significance. 'Ego eimi' was a common phrase among greek speaking people of that day used as a matter of 'self-reference'. Other people in the NT used the phrase 'ego eimi' and were not deemed 'God'. Even John 8:58 does not necessarily refer to any 'divinity' whatsoever, but that Jesus existed as one with a greater preeminence than Abraham, even from before Abraham in the mind of God,....as the promised Messiah to come. The Jews wanted to stone Jesus for many different things all adding up to their frustration, not just 'blasphemy' or a claim that he was 'God', since did NOT make this claim,...He did accept being the Son of God, even as they too were sons of God, children of the most high,.....these men even being called 'elohim'! (he quote psalm 82). He was showing his place as the Son of Man/Son of God, a man anointed by God to reveal, represent and proclaim God's word,....this is the Messiah's calling.
You disqualify yourself from even having the ability to judge what is and what is not a "rash assumption" because you willingly ignore the Testimony of Yeshua so as to make him your God even after the truth has been posted right here in this thread right in front of your eyes: "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true", (John 5:31). Therefore you say that your God-Man bears witness that he is God and yet his own statements, according to your own ill advised and uninformed proclamations, prove that he is not God simply because you proclaim that he testifies of himself, breaking his own rules. You really should immediately begin believing the words of the one whom you claim is God because by not believing what he says you reveal that you truly do not believe he is God, for if you did, you would believe his words. You claim he is God and yet you neither believe what he says nor do what he commands you to do.
PS ~ Not only is yours not "the only interpretation" but your interpretation is disallowed by Yeshua himself.
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Wick Stick
Well-known member
It's kind of both.
Linguistically, the Greek alphabet is derived largely from the Semitic alefbet, with the major difference being that the vowels are all spelled out. Because this is so, we can not only translate, but also transliterate names and words.
These 3 Greek letters, if we were to transliterate them into Hebrew, treating them as a name..
HVH
Which is God's name is Hebrew (lacking only the initial Yowd, which is itself a prefix).
Linguistically, the Greek alphabet is derived largely from the Semitic alefbet, with the major difference being that the vowels are all spelled out. Because this is so, we can not only translate, but also transliterate names and words.
These 3 Greek letters, if we were to transliterate them into Hebrew, treating them as a name..
...would correspond to the letters H, V, and N. The N would be removed due to declension and replaced with the normal ending, and you would get...
HVH
Which is God's name is Hebrew (lacking only the initial Yowd, which is itself a prefix).
CherubRam
New member
Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.”
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.”
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”
CherubRam
New member
[FONT="]In Hebrew there is the word "I," but there is no such words as "I am."[/FONT]
[FONT="]"I am" is an interpretation for "I Lived" also here in John 8. I Lived" is the trans-literal.[/FONT]
[h=3][FONT="]John 8:58[/FONT][/h] [FONT="]New International Version (NIV)[/FONT]
[FONT="]58 [/FONT][FONT="]“Very truly I tell you,”[/FONT][FONT="] Jesus answered, [/FONT][FONT="]“before Abraham was born, I am!” [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]And in Matthew 26 and Mark 14 we have the same story with two different acknowledgements.[/FONT][FONT="]
Matthew 26:62. Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"
63. But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
64. "[/FONT][FONT="]Yes[/FONT][FONT="], it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Mark 14:60. Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 61. But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62. "[/FONT][FONT="]I am[/FONT][FONT="]," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
[/FONT]
[FONT="]"I am" is an interpretation for "I Lived" also here in John 8. I Lived" is the trans-literal.[/FONT]
[h=3][FONT="]John 8:58[/FONT][/h] [FONT="]New International Version (NIV)[/FONT]
[FONT="]58 [/FONT][FONT="]“Very truly I tell you,”[/FONT][FONT="] Jesus answered, [/FONT][FONT="]“before Abraham was born, I am!” [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]And in Matthew 26 and Mark 14 we have the same story with two different acknowledgements.[/FONT][FONT="]
Matthew 26:62. Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"
63. But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
64. "[/FONT][FONT="]Yes[/FONT][FONT="], it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Mark 14:60. Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 61. But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62. "[/FONT][FONT="]I am[/FONT][FONT="]," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
[/FONT]
CherubRam
New member
[FONT="]The Living God[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Deuteronomy 5:26[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Joshua 3:10[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And Joshua said, Hereby ye shall know that the living God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Hivites, and the Perizzites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Samuel 17:26[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And David spake to the men that stood by him, saying, What shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine, and taketh away the reproach from Israel? for who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Samuel 17:36[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Thy servant slew both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Kings 19:4[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]It may be the Lord thy God will hear all the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to reproach the living God; and will reprove the words which the Lord thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that are left.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Kings 19:16[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Lord, bow down thine ear, and hear: open, Lord, thine eyes, and see: and hear the words of Sennacherib, which hath sent him to reproach the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Psalm 42:2[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Psalm 84:2[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the Lord: my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Isaiah 37:4[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]It may be the Lord thy God will hear the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to reproach the living God, and will reprove the words which the Lord thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that is left.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Isaiah 37:17[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Incline thine ear, O Lord, and hear; open thine eyes, O Lord, and see: and hear all the words of Sennacherib, which hath sent to reproach the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Jeremiah 10:10[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]But the Lord is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Jeremiah 23:36[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And the burden of the Lord shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the Lord of hosts our God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Daniel 6:20[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And when he came to the den, he cried with a lamentable voice unto Daniel: and the king spake and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is thy God, whom thou servest continually, able to deliver thee from the lions?[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Daniel 6:26[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Hosea 1:10[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Matthew 16:16[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Matthew 26:63[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]John 6:69[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Acts 14:15[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Romans 9:26[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Corinthians 3:3[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Corinthians 6:16[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Timothy 3:15[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Timothy 4:10[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.[/FONT]
[FONT="]https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Timothy+6:17&version=KJV[/FONT]
[FONT="]Timothy 6:17[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Deuteronomy 5:26[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Joshua 3:10[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And Joshua said, Hereby ye shall know that the living God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Hivites, and the Perizzites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Samuel 17:26[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And David spake to the men that stood by him, saying, What shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine, and taketh away the reproach from Israel? for who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Samuel 17:36[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Thy servant slew both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Kings 19:4[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]It may be the Lord thy God will hear all the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to reproach the living God; and will reprove the words which the Lord thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that are left.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Kings 19:16[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Lord, bow down thine ear, and hear: open, Lord, thine eyes, and see: and hear the words of Sennacherib, which hath sent him to reproach the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Psalm 42:2[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Psalm 84:2[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the Lord: my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Isaiah 37:4[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]It may be the Lord thy God will hear the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to reproach the living God, and will reprove the words which the Lord thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that is left.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Isaiah 37:17[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Incline thine ear, O Lord, and hear; open thine eyes, O Lord, and see: and hear all the words of Sennacherib, which hath sent to reproach the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Jeremiah 10:10[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]But the Lord is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Jeremiah 23:36[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And the burden of the Lord shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the Lord of hosts our God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Daniel 6:20[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And when he came to the den, he cried with a lamentable voice unto Daniel: and the king spake and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is thy God, whom thou servest continually, able to deliver thee from the lions?[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Daniel 6:26[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Hosea 1:10[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Matthew 16:16[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Matthew 26:63[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]John 6:69[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Acts 14:15[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Romans 9:26[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Corinthians 3:3[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Corinthians 6:16[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Timothy 3:15[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]1 Timothy 4:10[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.[/FONT]
[FONT="]https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Timothy+6:17&version=KJV[/FONT]
[FONT="]Timothy 6:17[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;[/FONT]
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themuzicman
Well-known member
Ah, but when we adopt the doctrine of the trinity, this is no longer a valid argument.
So, you've disqualified yourself on your own grounds.
That's an astounding confession! Thank you for that admission. So by context from what has already been said herein you are essentially admitting that when you adopt the Trinitarian view you no longer need to consider the words and statements of Yeshua a valid argument because, when you are adopted into the Trintarian fathers, their words become the higher authority and you therefore fall under the wings of your mother church to protect you from the words of Yeshua. Likewise you confess that I am, (ego eimi, lol), disqualified from Tripartarianism-sectarianism because I uphold the Testimony of Yeshua over your Trinitarian-tripartite tribolos-crowsfoot titon-triton-fathers. :chuckle:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
lesson on 'ego eimi'.......
lesson on 'ego eimi'.......
We've dismantled the assumption that 'ego eimi' refers to YHWH or is even a proper 'name' of God which it is not here and elsewhere - 'ego eimi' is but a common phrase used to reference oneself as being the one spoken about. That Jesus was only claiming to be the one Abraham was looking forward to as the Messiah, who was already in the mind of God even before Abraham came into existence is sufficient, since that is what the context is about. Now whatever the Jews read into what Jesus was saying was misconstrued in so many ways by Jesus own admission, so that many reasons existed for them wanting to stone him. Its still a fact that 'ego eimi' in this particular passage (John 8:58) is not identical to 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' in Ex. 3:14 since 'ego eimi' all by itself is never indicated to be the name of God in greek, since many different people use the term to refer to themselves. See the Septuagint which shows God's name to be 'ego eimi ho on',....'I am the BEING'(ehyeh), the Self-existing One, the original power that brings all things into being. Now if Jesus said 'ego eimi ho on'....that would be a different story, but he did not.
lesson on 'ego eimi'.......
We've dismantled the assumption that 'ego eimi' refers to YHWH or is even a proper 'name' of God which it is not here and elsewhere
- 'ego eimi' is but a common phrase used to reference oneself as being the one spoken about. That Jesus was only claiming to be the one Abraham was looking forward to as the Messiah, who was already in the mind of God even before Abraham came into existence is sufficient, since that is what the context is about. Now whatever the Jews read into what Jesus was saying was misconstrued in so many ways by Jesus own admission, so that many reasons existed for them wanting to stone him. Its still a fact that 'ego eimi' in this particular passage (John 8:58) is not identical to 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' in Ex. 3:14 since 'ego eimi' all by itself is never indicated to be the name of God in greek, since many different people use the term to refer to themselves. See the Septuagint which shows God's name to be 'ego eimi ho on',....'I am the BEING'(ehyeh), the Self-existing One, the original power that brings all things into being. Now if Jesus said 'ego eimi ho on'....that would be a different story, but he did not.
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Hi Dagg,
Who is this son of man?
62. "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
LA
Who is this son of man?
62. "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
LA
Yeshua does not even here claim to be the Son of man though he answers the question after having been adjured by the Living Elohim, (meaning he has no choice but to answer the chief Kohen). However I do not read the passage the way most do and it is therefore not problematic to my doctrine for Yeshua to say what Yeshua says in that passage:
Mark 14:62-63 W/H
61 ο δε εσιωπα και ουκ απεκρινατο ουδεν παλιν ο αρχιερευς επηρωτα αυτον και λεγει αυτω συ ει ο χριστος ο υιος του ευλογητου
62 ο δε ιησους ειπεν εγω ειμι και οψεσθε τον υιον του ανθρωπου εκ δεξιων καθημενον της δυναμεως και ερχομενον μετα των νεφελων του ουρανου
Mark 14:62-63
61 But he held his peace and answered nothing: again the chief Kohen questioned him, and said to him, Are you the one Anointed the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Yeshua said, I am: and the Son of man shall be seen sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.
Again, the Testimony of Yeshua is the Son of man who descended from the heavens at his immersion in the somatiko-corporeal-bodily form of the Dove. Testimony is SPIRIT, as Yeshua says, "The words that I speak to you are SPIRIT and they are LIFE", (John 6:63). A man can receive nothing except it be given him from the heavens. He that has the bride is the groom: but the friend of the groom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the voice of the groom. He that comes from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from the heavens is above all. The second anthropos-man is from heaven.
Yeshua does not even here claim to be the Son of man though he answers the question after having been adjured by the Living Elohim, (meaning he has no choice but to answer the chief Kohen). However I do not read the passage the way most do and it is therefore not problematic to my doctrine for Yeshua to say what Yeshua says in that passage:
Mark 14:62-63 W/H
61 ο δε εσιωπα και ουκ απεκρινατο ουδεν παλιν ο αρχιερευς επηρωτα αυτον και λεγει αυτω συ ει ο χριστος ο υιος του ευλογητου
62 ο δε ιησους ειπεν εγω ειμι και οψεσθε τον υιον του ανθρωπου εκ δεξιων καθημενον της δυναμεως και ερχομενον μετα των νεφελων του ουρανου
Mark 14:62-63
61 But he held his peace and answered nothing: again the chief Kohen questioned him, and said to him, Are you the one Anointed the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Yeshua said, I am: and the Son of man shall be seen sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.
Again, the Testimony of Yeshua is the Son of man who descended from the heavens at his immersion in the somatiko-corporeal-bodily form of the Dove. Testimony is SPIRIT, as Yeshua says, "The words that I speak to you are SPIRIT and they are LIFE", (John 6:63). A man can receive nothing except it be given him from the heavens. He that has the bride is the groom: but the friend of the groom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the voice of the groom. He that comes from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from the heavens is above all. The second anthropos-man is from heaven.
Notice the text---
62. "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
The son of man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One.
LA
Again, the Testimony of Yeshua is the Son of man who descended from the heavens at his immersion in the somatiko-corporeal-bodily form of the Dove. Testimony is SPIRIT, as Yeshua says, "The words that I speak to you are SPIRIT and they are LIFE", (John 6:63). A man can receive nothing except it be given him from the heavens. He that has the bride is the groom: but the friend of the groom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the voice of the groom. He that comes from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from the heavens is above all. The second anthropos-man is from heaven.
Talk to Keypurr about that. He believes much like that as well as GT similarly.
The son of Man was sent from Heaven, but he was raised up and sent while on earth.
LA
We've already been over this in another thread:
John 12:47-48
47 And if any hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world be delivered.
48 He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: THE LOGOS that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Revelation 19:11-16].
I even asked you if you would like me to go round up this with a host of other passages which show why you are in error and you ignored them when I did. Why now should I hear anything else you have to say when you have clearly rejected the Testimony of Yeshua?