'I AM' - the Name of God
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"O Master, who has believed our report? and to whom has the Arm of YHWH been revealed?"
themuzicman
Well-known member
We've dismantled the assumption that 'ego eimi' refers to YHWH or is even a proper 'name' of God which it is not here and elsewhere- 'ego eimi' is but a common phrase used to reference oneself as being the one spoken about. That Jesus was only claiming to be the one Abraham was looking forward to as the Messiah, who was already in the mind of God even before Abraham came into existence is sufficient, since that is what the context is about. Now whatever the Jews read into what Jesus was saying was misconstrued in so many ways by Jesus own admission, so that many reasons existed for them wanting to stone him. Its still a fact that 'ego eimi' in this particular passage (John 8:58) is not identical to 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' in Ex. 3:14 since 'ego eimi' all by itself is never indicated to be the name of God in greek, since many different people use the term to refer to themselves. See the Septuagint which shows God's name to be 'ego eimi ho on',....'I am the BEING'(ehyeh), the Self-existing One, the original power that brings all things into being. Now if Jesus said 'ego eimi ho on'....that would be a different story, but he did not.
You Arian heretics can be so funny.
beameup
New member
I believe Attila the Hun was an Arian... but he wasn't very "funny"
Satan/Devil/Lucifer's fall was that he developed an "ego" [Isaiah 14:12-15]
YHWH is the legitimate "ego" in the universe, but He is so humble and kind and loving.
:mock:
"ho on" :rotfl:
Wow, prayer might not even fix that one, better hope there are indeed two "ages" in the span of a man, The End.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
The Being, The Source of all that is and ever will be.......
The Being, The Source of all that is and ever will be.......
I'd consider Arius view a little closer - The Arian Catholic Church (as you may know there are variations of the original Arian view proposed by Arius, semi-arian views, etc....theres some 'wiggle room' )
Now don't fret,..its just another perspective or description of Jesus relationship to God by those who value and follow Jesus teachings, having their own interpretations of the scriptures. With this in mind, welcome to Christendom.
Well,....we all have an 'ego', but its a matter of how we define it and refer to it. There is a false ego that makes itself 'God', while theres another aspect of 'ego' that does not have these negative connotations.
Remember,...the Septuagint translates 3:14 as 'ego eimi ho on' (I am The Being)....it is not 'ego eimi' alone, which would be an imcomplete phrase. I am the Self-existing one, the one who is and brings all things into being. 'Ego eimi' all by itself is never anywhere given in scripture as an equivalent to the Hebrew 'ehyeh' as a 'name' of God, and in the Septuagint is qualified by 'ho on', as indicating what God is, as BEING itself. The meaning sense of the phrase 'I am' of course also denotes 'self-existence' or a reference to one's own conscious being or identity, but 'ego eimi' being a common greek phrase was used by other persons in the NT, as simply a matter of self reference. - "I'm the one being spoken of", "It is I", etc. Nothing special there, neither is 'ego eimi' the divine name of God. You cant just stop at an English phrase 'I am' and call it 'God' proper, except by a philosophical or intuitional sense of consciousness recognizing itself as existing. In this case on a universal level, any one of us can declare 'I am', and in that ontological realization call that 'consciousness' GOD! - in which case we are all part of the Universal God-Presence which recognizes itself at the most essential core as 'life', 'being' and 'consciousness'. But perhaps I digress,...there is much more here.
'Ehyeh asher Ehyeh' gives the idea not only of absolute existence or being, but the motivation of bringing into being or 'be-coming' as well, as in "I will be what I will be", so that 'I Am' and 'I Will Be' both apply to the divine revelation of The Deity. - 'God' is the source of that which IS, and brings into being all that is and all that will ever be. Note that this 'God' or 'Ehyeh' is the Invisible Father whom Jesus calls his 'God' and 'Father'.
The Being, The Source of all that is and ever will be.......
I believe Attila the Hun was an Arian... but he wasn't very "funny"
I'd consider Arius view a little closer
- The Arian Catholic Church (as you may know there are variations of the original Arian view proposed by Arius, semi-arian views, etc....theres some 'wiggle room' )Now don't fret,..its just another perspective or description of Jesus relationship to God by those who value and follow Jesus teachings, having their own interpretations of the scriptures. With this in mind, welcome to Christendom.
Well,....we all have an 'ego', but its a matter of how we define it and refer to it. There is a false ego that makes itself 'God', while theres another aspect of 'ego' that does not have these negative connotations.
Remember,...the Septuagint translates 3:14 as 'ego eimi ho on' (I am The Being)....it is not 'ego eimi' alone, which would be an imcomplete phrase. I am the Self-existing one, the one who is and brings all things into being. 'Ego eimi' all by itself is never anywhere given in scripture as an equivalent to the Hebrew 'ehyeh' as a 'name' of God, and in the Septuagint is qualified by 'ho on', as indicating what God is, as BEING itself. The meaning sense of the phrase 'I am' of course also denotes 'self-existence' or a reference to one's own conscious being or identity, but 'ego eimi' being a common greek phrase was used by other persons in the NT, as simply a matter of self reference. - "I'm the one being spoken of", "It is I", etc. Nothing special there, neither is 'ego eimi' the divine name of God. You cant just stop at an English phrase 'I am' and call it 'God' proper, except by a philosophical or intuitional sense of consciousness recognizing itself as existing. In this case on a universal level, any one of us can declare 'I am', and in that ontological realization call that 'consciousness' GOD! - in which case we are all part of the Universal God-Presence which recognizes itself at the most essential core as 'life', 'being' and 'consciousness'. But perhaps I digress,...there is much more here.
'Ehyeh asher Ehyeh' gives the idea not only of absolute existence or being, but the motivation of bringing into being or 'be-coming' as well, as in "I will be what I will be", so that 'I Am' and 'I Will Be' both apply to the divine revelation of The Deity. - 'God' is the source of that which IS, and brings into being all that is and all that will ever be. Note that this 'God' or 'Ehyeh' is the Invisible Father whom Jesus calls his 'God' and 'Father'.
Ben Masada
New member
I'd consider Arius view a little closer
Now don't fret,..its just another perspective or description of Jesus relationship to God by those who value and follow Jesus teachings, having their own interpretations of the scriptures. With this in mind, welcome to Christendom.
Well,....we all have an 'ego', but its a matter of how we define it and refer to it. There is a false ego that makes itself 'God', while theres another aspect of 'ego' that does not have these negative connotations.
Remember,...the Septuagint translates 3:14 as 'ego eimi ho on' (I am The Being)....it is not 'ego eimi' alone, which would be an imcomplete phrase. I am the Self-existing one, the one who is and brings all things into being. 'Ego eimi' all by itself is never anywhere given in scripture as an equivalent to the Hebrew 'ehyeh' as a 'name' of God, and in the Septuagint is qualified by 'ho on', as indicating what God is, as BEING itself. The meaning sense of the phrase 'I am' of course also denotes 'self-existence' or a reference to one's own conscious being or identity, but 'ego eimi' being a common greek phrase was used by other persons in the NT, as simply a matter of self reference. - "I'm the one being spoken of", "It is I", etc. Nothing special there, neither is 'ego eimi' the divine name of God. You cant just stop at an English phrase 'I am' and call it 'God' proper, except by a philosophical or intuitional sense of consciousness recognizing itself as existing. In this case on a universal level, any one of us can declare 'I am', and in that ontological realization call that 'consciousness' GOD! - in which case we are all part of the Universal God-Presence which recognizes itself at the most essential core as 'life', 'being' and 'consciousness'. But perhaps I digress,...there is much more here.
'Ehyeh asher Ehyeh' gives the idea not only of absolute existence or being, but the motivation of bringing into being or 'be-coming' as well, as in "I will be what I will be", so that 'I Am' and 'I Will Be' both apply to the divine revelation of The Deity. - 'God' is the source of that which IS, and brings into being all that is and all that will ever be. Note that this 'God' or 'Ehyeh' is the Invisible Father whom Jesus calls his 'God' and 'Father'.
HaShem is not really the name of the Lord but a description that the Lord is what He is forever. Nobody knows the real name of God; only the High Priest who was allowed to pronounce it only once a year during celebration of Yom Kippur, in a moment that no one else would be able to pinpoint the occasion and suddenly shout: "There! He just said it!"
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
name tags..............
name tags..............
Yes, and on one level, all this divine name stuff is a bit 'vague' isn't it? - we have 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' as a description of 'God', but somehow this is to be identified as 'God',...does a 'de-scription' qualify as a 'name'? At some point if we can never really even know or pronounce the name of DEITY,....all we have left are descriptions only. One name may be good as another, or another a better appromixation thereof. We come back to the 'unknown God', who is only known by some metaphysical essence or meaning describing his nature and creative actions. As far as what the high priest uttered in the temple once a year,....why hasn't that 'utterance' continued down thru some esoteric schools? or perhaps it has,...and if the temple is erected again,...who shall restore that divine name? I guess all we have is 'The BEING',...being itself, whatever IT is
The One Absolute Reality is the One that IS. - all else is relative, a play of space, time, creation.
name tags..............
Yes, and on one level, all this divine name stuff is a bit 'vague' isn't it? - we have 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' as a description of 'God', but somehow this is to be identified as 'God',...does a 'de-scription' qualify as a 'name'? At some point if we can never really even know or pronounce the name of DEITY,....all we have left are descriptions only. One name may be good as another, or another a better appromixation thereof. We come back to the 'unknown God', who is only known by some metaphysical essence or meaning describing his nature and creative actions. As far as what the high priest uttered in the temple once a year,....why hasn't that 'utterance' continued down thru some esoteric schools? or perhaps it has,...and if the temple is erected again,...who shall restore that divine name? I guess all we have is 'The BEING',...being itself, whatever IT is
The One Absolute Reality is the One that IS. - all else is relative, a play of space, time, creation.
BEING',...being itself, whatever IT is
I am freelight, hear me roar -
Ben Masada
New member
Yes, and on one level, all this divine name stuff is a bit 'vague' isn't it? - we have 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' as a description of 'God', but somehow this is to be identified as 'God',...does a 'de-scription' qualify as a 'name'? At some point if we can never really even know or pronounce the name of DEITY,....all we have left are descriptions only. One name may be good as another, or another a better appromixation thereof. We come back to the 'unknown God', who is only known by some metaphysical essence or meaning describing his nature and creative actions. As far as what the high priest uttered in the temple once a year,....why hasn't that 'utterance' continued down thru some esoteric schools? or perhaps it has,...and if the temple is erected again,...who shall restore that divine name? I guess all we have is 'The BEING',...being itself, whatever IT is
The One Absolute Reality is the One that IS. - all else is relative, a play of space, time, creation.
Cal hacavod Freelight! I agree with all you have said. All descriptive names of God are indeed names no doubt that can be used almost everywhere in the synagogues or when we are discussing about HaShem. The describing of God by His names is according to the nature and God's creative actions. I learned this particular perspective about HaShem from Maimonides in his book "Guide for the Perplexed."
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
:thumb:
You may recall my thread entitled "The Mighty I AM Presence",...which went into the divine name but took this theme further, as there being an 'I AM' presence in each soul, that being an essential spirit, spark or fragment of 'God' dwelling therein. So we went deep into the 'ehyeh asher ehyeh' statement in its meaning, significance and how the divine presence inter-relates and engages with the soul of humanity, from the perspective of different religious schools, both east and west.
This is a most fascinating subject, a fundamental one, but so much depends on how we are defining, relating and contextualizing it all.
beameup
New member
I'd consider Arius view a little closer
Now don't fret,..its just another perspective or description of Jesus relationship to God by those who value and follow Jesus teachings, having their own interpretations of the scriptures. With this in mind, welcome to Christendom.
For by the SON were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist [hold together]. - Colossians 1:16-17
You "exist" only because the SON allows you to "exist".
Welcome to reality.
You have to be true to the text and not change it to suit your thoughts.
Be aware of the leaping back and forth from the Father to the Son in the passages.
Col 1:16 For by him (Christ in mind)were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him (the Father), and for him
the Son) Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Eph 4:5 One Lord, (Jesus) one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
LA
keypurr
Well-known member
Consider any power the son had was given to him by his God.
God created all through his son.
beameup
New member
You have to be true to the text and not change it to suit your thoughts.
Be aware of the leaping back and forth from the Father to the Son in the passages.
Col 1:16 For by him (Christ in mind)were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him (the Father), and for him
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
LA
The subject of Colossians 1:13-18 is the Son. It doesn't "leap back-and-forth", it is focused.
He has existed before all things, and in Him all things hold together [consist]. - Col 1:17 from NASB
Jesus existed in the heart and mind of God before the foundation of the world.
We did too.
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
LA
God created through His speaking His Word and from His Word was Jesus born and raised up.
LA
keypurr
Well-known member
There is more to creation than that. How did he use his word. Jesus is not his word, the spirit in him is the logos.
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