How the Gospel Works

[God's Truth]

For over 1,600 years the Jews had to WORK at CLEANING themselves.

They did these works:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

Can you imagine for a minute being a Gentile and watching the Jews every day sacrifice animals and clean themselves by doing those things day after day and year after year?

Just imagine being a Gentile knowing that the Jews cannot associate with you because you are unclean. You are unclean and without God because you do not get circumcised in the flesh and do these things to be justified before God, just to go to the temple where His Spirit was.

Now imagine Jesus coming and being the last sacrifice, once and for all.

Imagine how all that will make you clean is to believe that his blood washed you clean, instead of circumcision, and various washings, and a special diet, and the sacrifice of animals.

Imagine Jesus saving you, a Gentile in your UNcircumcised flesh, only because you believe his blood washes you clean of the sins you repent of.

 

[God's Truth]

That is what Paul is talking about when he says not of works.

Paul would not ever say not of by obedience.

 

[Lon]

I have already explained those scriptures to you. Can you reply to that?

Again, those scripture you post are of Paul explaining how no one is saved by the purification/ceremonial works anymore.

Paul would never preach that we are not to obey to get saved.

:nono: Ephesus was a Greek city, not Jewish. Whatever the disagreement, let us not transgress the scriptures or history by our guesses and wrongful postulations. Read the verses. "Not by works." It is a done deal. You went to about 20 churches? The 10 or so that taught works were wrong.

 

[glorydaz]

Are you kidding? It is personal, and you all go against me. You have been one of the worst. You acted like a friend and we private messaged each other, and then you publicly repeated things that I said in private, all the while trying to deliberately hurt me.

You call me devil and many other things. You try to demean me in any way you can, even calling me a child, and worse.

First, I don't call you the devil. I know who the devil is...he is the god of this world.

Second, note the words in yellow. You have a serious persecution complex. So many people have tried to help you, but you refuse to let them. I've washed my hands of you more than once, and I guess it's time to do so again. You remain blind and unteachable. :nono:

 

[God's Truth]

First, I don't call you the devil. I know who the devil is...he is the god of this world.

Second, note the words in yellow. You have a serious persecution complex. So many people have tried to help you, but you refuse to let them. I've washed my hands of you more than once, and I guess it's time to do so again. You remain blind and unteachable. :nono:

You are in major denial, imho.

 

[glorydaz]

You are in major denial, imho.

opcorn:

 

[God's Truth]

:nono: Ephesus was a Greek city, not Jewish.

Who said it was a Jewish city?

What do you think you have proven, or disproved by saying Ephesus was a Greek city?

Do you really think that proves me wrong when I said the Gentiles knew the Jews had purification/ceremonial works to do?

Read this scripture:
Acts 15:21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

The law of Moses included the purification works.
The Gentiles heard of the purification works because it was preached in every city.


In Ephesus

Acts 19:8 Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9 But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. 10 This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.


Did you read that about Ephesus?

How about you try again to disprove me by thinking of something else to say?

Whatever the disagreement, let us not transgress the scriptures or history by our guesses and wrongful postulations. Read the verses. "Not by works." It is a done deal. You went to about 20 churches? The 10 or so that taught works were wrong.

I studied Calvinism too.

Calvinism is false.

You need to address what I explained to you more about the scriptures where Paul says not of by works.

How do you EVER get Paul is saying not of by obedience?

 

[Lon]

Who said it was a Jewish city?

What do you think you have proven, or disproved by saying Ephesus was a Greek city?

Do you really think that proves me wrong when I said the Gentiles knew the Jews had purification/ceremonial works to do?

Read this scripture:
Acts 15:21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

The law of Moses included the purification works.
The Gentiles heard of the purification works because it was preached in every city.


In Ephesus

Acts 19:8 Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9 But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. 10 This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.


Did you read that about Ephesus?

How about you try again to disprove me by thinking of something else to say?


I studied Calvinism too.

Calvinism is false.

You need to address what I explained to you more about the scriptures where Paul says not of by works.

How do you EVER get Paul is saying not of by obedience?

:sigh:
1) it makes no sense, in context, for it to be about ceremony or custom
2) Galatians 2:16; 3:11 Romans 3:20

3) Ephesians 2:11,19 :doh: Ephesians 3:1 Do you even read the Bible? :doh: Please stop the madness. Read the thing. How can you have His truth if you won't even READ HIM!!!??? READ HIM!!!!!

4) Ephesians 3:12,20 THEN Ephesians 5:15-17 Read and understand God's Word.

opcorn:

Glory was 'trying' to tell you, and often nicely, that a good many of us believe scripture is against works that lead to salvation or 'keeping' salvation. 2 Timothy 1:12. Galatians 2:21 Glory has also told you, I know, that God disciplines those who belong to Him, He doesn't toss them in the trash can Hebrews12:5-12

 

[God's Truth]

:sigh:
1) it makes no sense, in context, for it to be about ceremony or custom
2) Galatians 2:16; 3:11 Romans 3:20

The WORKS OF THE LAW are the ceremonial works.

3) Ephesians 2:11,19 :doh: Ephesians 3:1 Do you even read the Bible? :doh: Please stop the madness. Read the thing. How can you have His truth if you won't even READ HIM!!!??? READ HIM!!!!!

Every time no works is mentioned, the word circumcision is nearby.

You need to read.

4) Ephesians 3:12,20 THEN Ephesians 5:15-17 Read and understand God's Word.


Glory was 'trying' to tell you, and often nicely, that a good many of us believe scripture is against works that lead to salvation or 'keeping' salvation. 2 Timothy 1:12. Galatians 2:21 Glory has also told you, I know, that God disciplines those who belong to Him, He doesn't toss them in the trash can Hebrews12:5-12

What? Sounds like you went off the deep end.

Paul is not saying we are saved by doing nothing. Paul says no works of the law. The works of the law is no circumcision and no animal sacrifices.

Show one scripture where Paul rebukes someone for obeying Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

Peter and James must have heard about the false faith only doctrine people wrongly accused Paul of preaching, for Peter says the unstable and ignorant misunderstand Paul, and then Peter warns us to obey; see 2 Peter 3:16 and 17. James calls people foolish and then explains how faith without right action is dead and cannot save anyone; see James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, and 24.

 

[Clete]

Hilston and AMR have both addressed God's Decretive and Prescriptive will. Though 1 is a Calvinist, and the other MAD, they both say nearly the identical thing, both even referring to one another over the matter. Therefore, it is not a Calvinist specific doctrine. It needs to be investigated as the biblical expression it is. Even when I disagree with Hilston, I have a very hard time defying his logic. He is one of the better thinkers, not just on TOL.

Hilston and AMR are both Calvinists, Lon. It isn't dispensationalism that conflicts with Calvinism, it's free will theism and the concepts of love justice.

 

[God's Truth]

I am still waiting for glorydazed to tell me how a person cannot be saved unless they hear her version of the gospel. How about any faith alone believer? Explain to me how a person has to hear and understand that strange gospel to be saved. Calvinists too, explain it to me how one has to hear your strange doctrine to be saved. I would like it explained how I can't, or any person who wants to be saved can't just open the Bible to the New Testament and read what Jesus says and believe and do it and so be saved.

 

[God's Truth]

Can't you all see that you ALL say the same false thing? EVERY DENOMINATION says one must hear their gospel in order to be saved! Catholics say we must believe in their way; faith only says we have to believe in their way; Calvinists say we must believe in their way...on and on and on. How about I have to believe in THE WAY, Jesus Christ, and do what HE SAYS? That is right, how about that? How about ANYONE from anywhere can get a Bible, read what Jesus says, do what the WAY says, and then be saved?

 

[God's Truth]

You are ALL wrong and Jesus is right.

 

[Robert Pate]

Can't you all see that you ALL say the same false thing? EVERY DENOMINATION says one must hear their gospel in order to be saved! Catholics say we must believe in their way; faith only says we have to believe in their way; Calvinists say we must believe in their way...on and on and on. How about I have to believe in THE WAY, Jesus Christ, and do what HE SAYS? That is right, how about that? How about ANYONE from anywhere can get a Bible, read what Jesus says, do what the WAY says, and then be saved?

You have a lot of problems with the scriptures. Paul wrote, "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" which is the Gospel, Romans 10:17.

On the day of Pentecost thousand heard Peter's Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

Paul also wrote, "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

 

[God's Truth]

You have a lot of problems with the scriptures. Paul wrote, "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" which is the Gospel, Romans 10:17.

We hear the gospel when we read it. You don't hear the words while you read it?

On the day of Pentecost thousand heard Peter's Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

Peter and the other apostles words ARE scripture and the words were not all written down yet.

Paul also wrote, "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

Paul is explaining to the GALATIANS that they received the Spirit by believing Jesus' blood cleans them of the sins they repent of doing, and that the observance of special days and the circumcision of the flesh they were talked into will not clean them.

 

[Robert Pate]

We hear the gospel when we read it. You don't hear the words while you read it?


Peter and the other apostles words ARE scripture and the words were not all written down yet.



Paul is explaining to the GALATIANS that they received the Spirit by believing Jesus' blood cleans them of the sins they repent of doing, and that the observance of special days and the circumcision of the flesh they were talked into will not clean them.

There is no cleansing with out first being justified. You try to avoid the doctrine of justification because it is in conflict with your holiness religion. Jesus does the justifying, Romans 3:26. We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. Jesus in our name and on our behalf justifies us.

"But to him that does no works (or obedience) but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works or obedience) is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

 

[Right Divider]

I am still waiting for glorydazed to tell me how a person cannot be saved unless they hear her version of the gospel. How about any faith alone believer? Explain to me how a person has to hear and understand that strange gospel to be saved. Calvinists too, explain it to me how one has to hear your strange doctrine to be saved. I would like it explained how I can't, or any person who wants to be saved can't just open the Bible to the New Testament and read what Jesus says and believe and do it and so be saved.

Oh, I just so feel the love in your heart.

 

[musterion]

Well Jesus DID say to love your enemies. GT has to do that or go to the Lake of Fire.

 

[Right Divider]

Well Jesus DID say to love your enemies. GT has to do that or go to the Lake of Fire.

Matt 5:48 (KJV)​

(5:48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
​

She doesn't keep that command either.