How many people actually caught measles from the vaccination?

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Why not offer a vaccine for measles alone (single) instead of combining it in the MMR? Some parents would like to have the option to have singles instead of the combo.

Well, there are some places where you can still get the monovalent measles vaccine.

According to WHO:

"A number of live, attenuated measles vaccines are currently available, either as monovalent vaccine or as measles-containing vaccine combinations with one or more of rubella (R), mumps (M), and varicella vaccines. The measles/mumps/rubella (MMR) or measles/rubella (MR) vaccine is given in many countries instead of monovalent measles vaccine."

Though I am informed that Merck has stopped producing the monovalent measles vaccine, and is nearly impossible to get in the United States.

Though according to Sciencebasedmedicine.com:

"There are several reasons Merck’s decision about the MMR vaccine is so important. In addition to creating the need for more doctor visits, with more shots, more pain, and at greater cost, splitting the vaccine into individual components prolongs the vaccination process (each component must be separated by at least a month to insure efficacy), increasing a child’s vulnerability to disease. Administration of separate components over prolonged intervals is also less likely to result in completion of the series, than is administration of a single vaccine."

The justification for the double dose was vaccine failure

No, this is what you have persistently put forth as mere bald assertion. I have already presented evidence to the contrary you have yet to address, or acknowledge in any meaningful way. I can direct you to that post if you desire.

yet we are to believe that a vaccine with such high failure rates was the reason for the reduction in measles cases at the time it was failing.

No, one is saying this except you.

Consider there was a war on poverty in the United States occurring during the decrease that would have had a significant impact on measles cases.

Per the CDC article I quoted earlier, a large portion of the unvaccinated were inner-city minorities that didn't have affordable access to the vaccine.

Interestingly, both the incidence and death rates for measles had been declining long before the introduction of the vaccine.

You are just regurgitating already refuted claims.

I've read that if the decline had continued at that rate without a vaccine available, measles would have been eliminated by 2000; coincidentally the CDC claimed that measles were eliminated in 2000.

I'm sure you've read a lot of things, many of them untrue.

 

[The Barbarian]

The public health rationale for MMR is simple. Rubella is normally not a serious disease in children but is devastating when a pregnant woman is infected. Likewise, mumps in an adult can be much more serious than in a child.

 

[fzappa13]

I did some coursework in immunology in graduate school, and operated an immunology clinic in the AF for about 6 years.

And I notice that those who talk most about "vaccine education" tend to be those with the lowest level of understanding about immunology and vaccines.

Yeah, and you've been to the moon and secured the southern border and were intimately involved with Al Gore in solving the global warming problem while securing the right for all children to receive a good common core education after a consulting gig on the CERN super collider project.

You are a piece of work Barbie. I don't know why any of the rest of us bother to post here. We've got you.

 

[The Barbarian]

Do medical personnel ask pregnant women if they have been immunized with MMR and do they test for this?

Yep.

http://www.babycenter.com/400_im-8-...lla-igg-test-was-positive-shoul_7231585_54.bc

 

[fzappa13]

The public health rationale for MMR is simple. Rubella is normally not a serious disease in children but is devastating when a pregnant woman is infected. Likewise, mumps in an adult can be much more serious than in a child.

No, you are simple. The rational for MMR is not. Combining these vaccinations has deleterious effects that I have experienced personally as a kid on his way to Korea. But, hey, that's just anecdotal evidence and I know from personal experience that personal experience has no merit in your world. It's all about absorbing and dispensing the dictums of any and all champions of media approved orthodoxy and, regardless of the field of study you've been there, done that and we should all just shut up and listen to you, take two aspirin and go back to sleep.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
I did some coursework in immunology in graduate school, and operated an immunology clinic in the AF for about 6 years.

And I notice that those who talk most about "vaccine education" tend to be those with the lowest level of understanding about immunology and vaccines.

Yeah, and you've been to the moon and secured the southern border and were intimately involved with Al Gore in solving the global warming problem while securing the right for all children to receive a good common core education after a consulting gig on the CERN super collider project.

You're in kind of a snit today, aren't you, fiz? Yeah, I got drafted out of college, joined the AF, and after a couple of years, got assigned to an immunology clinic. In a year, it was mine. 91240, I think, was the AFC for a senior allergy/immunology technician. The reg we used was 161-13.

Three years into my enlistment, I was bootstrapped back to graduate school, for which I had to give them another 3 years, but it was worth it.

Per Air Force Policy letter 2002-09, dated July 2002, the Air Force replaced the former “Bootstrap” program with the Air Force Educational Leave of Absence. The “Bootstrap” program was replaced because there were several details of this older program that were illegal under the US Code (Title 10, Sec 708). The new program, abbreviated as both AFELA and just ELA, allows for Air Force members to attend an accredited school full-time to obtain a degree of any level (including PhD). The next revision of Air Force Instruction AFI 36-2306, Air Force Education Programs, promises to outline this program in detail.

You are a piece of work Barbie.

Not yet. When you get to be as old as I am, you'll find you've done a lot of things in your life, too. But I have a few other things on the bucket list before I check out.

Well, maybe you won't. You don't seem much like the kind who adventures much.

I think if you're obsessed enough to go search, you'll find that I've mentioned most of this here, before. I've done a lot of stuff in my life. It's more fun that way.

 

[The Barbarian]

Okay, this looks like a blog or something.

Yeah. Just did a quick search to see if docs still test for rubella titer in pregnant women. Apparently, they still do.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
The public health rationale for MMR is simple. Rubella is normally not a serious disease in children but is devastating when a pregnant woman is infected. Likewise, mumps in an adult can be much more serious than in a child.

No, you are simple.

Well, you know what simpletons Barbarians are...

The rational for MMR is not. Combining these vaccinations has deleterious effects that I have experienced personally as a kid on his way to Korea.

Most kids, especially older ones, pop a mild fever. It is a live virus vaccine, after all.

But, hey, that's just anecdotal evidence and I know from personal experience that personal experience has no merit in your world.

Data counts. So the numbers matter a lot more than a person anecdote, yes.

It's all about absorbing and dispensing the dictums of any and all champions of media approved orthodoxy and, regardless of the field of study you've been there, done that and we should all just shut up and listen to you, take two aspirin and go back to sleep.

Don't get mad. Get educated. Learn about some of this, and you won't be embarrassed so often.

Is there even one flubadub conspiracy theory you haven't swallowed whole?

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

I know I read something in the last few years about the price of these vaccines and that the single dose is more expensive for the providers and that would be passed on to the consumer.

Based on the article I read, that is part of it.

DS: You posted that you would keep the MMR for school age children. What do you think of the other long list of mandated vaccines required for kids for school?

I haven't ventured an opinion. Did you have something specific in mind? I will just say this: I am not a doctor nor am I a medical researcher and I am not generally inclined to dispute the consensus of experts who have spent their life's work studying these things absent some really compelling reason.

 

[fzappa13]

In Texas the K-12 requirements look like this:

Diphtheria
Tetanus
Pertussis
Polio
Measles
Mumps
Rubella
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Varicella
Meningococcal


Most of these are also required to be administered to all children 3 to 42 months old in order to attend a child care facility.

This is from the Texas Department of State Health which usually just implements federal mandates and programs so I would hazard a guess that most states requirements look something like this as well.

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/immunize/default.shtm

 

[fzappa13]

When I first went to school there was one vaccination required.


Yes, I'm going somewhere with this.

 

[fzappa13]

Daedalean's_Sun offered:

“There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god.” ― J.B.S. Haldane, Daedalus

I find this offering interesting in that you would suggest that both fire and flying are inventions but seem somewhat confused as to the identity of the inventor. :chuckle:

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

In Texas the K-12 requirements look like this:

Many of these are combined, and so look a little more like this:

Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis
Polio
Measles-Mumps-Rubella or Measles-Mumps-Rubella-Varicella
Varicella (if not combined with MMR)
Hepatitis B
Meningococcal

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Daedalean's_Sun offered:

“There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god.” ― J.B.S. Haldane, Daedalus

I find this offering interesting in that you would suggest that both fire and flying are inventions but seem somewhat confused as to the identity of the inventor. :chuckle:

Are you going to say God? By the same extension of logic we could say that vaccines were invented by God.

 

[User Name]

My stepdaughter was given a chicken-pox vaccination. She never got chicken-pox but she got shingles ... which you're only supposed to be able to get if you've had chicken-pox.

There is a separate vaccination for shingles:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/shingles/vacc-need-know.htm

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Interestingly, both the incidence and death rates for measles had been declining long before the introduction of the vaccine.

You made this same claim before, and here you are repeating the same refuted claim:

[/IMG]

Even the 1989 outbreak pales in comparison to measles cases prior to the vaccine.

 

[fzappa13]

Are you going to say God? By the same extension of logic we could say that vaccines were invented by God.

Actually, He invented a pretty serviceable catch all vaccine. It's called an immune system and it does a pretty good job when we don't muck it up.

 

[fzappa13]

There is a separate vaccination for shingles:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/shingles/vacc-need-know.htm

:doh:

You missed the point ...and BTW, the link you offered suggests the "vaccine" be administered to folks over 60. I guess in another 15 months I had better trot down to the Doc's, get the vaccine and then wait to see whether or not I get chicken pox ... which would be the reverse of what happened to my step daughter.

 

[fzappa13]

You made this same claim before, and here you are repeating the same refuted claim:

[/IMG]

Even the 1989 outbreak pales in comparison to measles cases prior to the vaccine.

How are you able to copy and paste GIFs? I've never been able to and I always assumed that it was because I was not a subscriber and I notice you aren't either.

 

[drbrumley]

You made this same claim before, and here you are repeating the same refuted claim:

[/IMG]

Even the 1989 outbreak pales in comparison to measles cases prior to the vaccine.

That actually refutes nothing, but carry on.