How important is the Sabbath?

[clefty]

The Day of Rest aka Sabbath was not given to mankind until God gave it to the nation of Israel as a sign that they were His people. It was part of their covenant Law.

Not yokeless or homeless. I am citizen of Heaven - of His Kingdom. The yoke of Jesus, which is light, not heavy or burdensome.

The Sabbath was a burden to Israel which is why they could never keep it. I once had a discussion with a Chasidic Rabbi - I was curious what he thought about Gentiles wanting to keep the Law and the Sabbaths. He looked surprised and said, why would anyone willingly subject themselves to such a burden that we Jews have to endure? I will never forget the look of pain on his face. The implications of it did not hit me until years later.

Exactly why we have Him and the comforter to make it light...poor foolish man was trying to go it alone...typical of his ilk

We however have help.

So please describe this "other" yoke Yahushua speaks of .

This yoke allows you to kill does it? Steal? Commit adultery?

Is it such a burden for you NOT to lie?

Oh and why didn't He say Sabbath was made for Israel or even that one tribe your weary friend is enslaved to?

That yoke of His is counter His Father's Is it?

 

[TweetyBird]

Exactly why we have Him and the comforter to make it light...poor foolish man was trying to go it alone...typical of his ilk

We however have help.

So please describe this "other" yoke Yahushua speaks of .

This yoke allows you to kill does it? Steal? Commit adultery?

Is it such a burden for you NOT to lie?

Oh and why didn't He say Sabbath was made for Israel or even that one tribe your weary friend is enslaved to?

That yoke of His is counter His Father's Is it?

God did say that the Sabbath was made for Israel. It was not for the Gentiles.

 

[jamie]

God did say that the Sabbath was made for Israel. It was not for the Gentiles.

And it still isn't, it's for spiritual Israel.

 

[clefty]

God did say that the Sabbath was made for Israel. It was not for the Gentiles.

You ignored a lot of my questions. Typical.

Yah said:

"priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them."

Did you catch that? "My laws...My Sabbaths"...so I guess nobody needs to try and keep it...unless you want to live forever with Him.

Funny thing about that "new covenant"...it was to be made to the house of Israel...so when Yahushua toasted its christening to a room full of that tribe of Jacob...not one gentile was there to receive it...yet in that church in the wilderness, as Stephan called it, there were many strangers and foreigners and non natives who hiked along with them. They were actually written in as to received that Sabbath rest. In fact of the 10 it's the only one that does single them out as beneficiaries...And currently no Christian has a problem with accepting 9 of the laws...it's just that weekly rest thingy they resist...

The Law points out sin that's its function...so I guess it should be written... all only da Israelites have sinned...

Paul is quite clear...we establish Law...His Law..it shows our need for the gospel of its salvation...

A lot of work establishing His Law...is why His people still have a sabbath keeping see Heb 4:9 for details...



But as I keep sayin'...Sabbath, like woman, was made for man...some sinners reject both...

 

[jamie]

But as I keep sayin'...Sabbath, like woman, was made for man...some sinners reject both...

Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone, I will make him a helper comparable to him.”

And that is why the Father is giving a bride to his Son, to be a helper to him.

 

[clefty]

Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone, I will make him a helper comparable to him.”

And that is why the Father is giving a bride to his Son, to be a helper to him.

Kabbalists have tortured a metaphor of the Sabbath as a bride to Israel...leave it to humans to make idols and profane the sacred...this sort of counterfeiting would have Sabbath being married to only nation...as if it is only theirs

No surprise gentiles were taught such nonsense...and believe it.

Israel was His bride so her having a bride is well...abominable...

Also no surprise this sorcery is practiced on Friday night...Friday night as the beginning of Sabbaths, with candle lighting and all that, was brought back from babylon...

Biblical days begin in the morning just as sure as evenings end the daylight portion and mornings end the darkness...there was evening and there was morning...the completion of one day...

Deceptions are indeed critical to maintain Sunday worship...

 

[daqq]

Kabbalists have tortured a metaphor of the Sabbath as a bride to Israel...leave it to humans to make idols and profane the sacred...this sort of counterfeiting would have Sabbath being married to only nation...as if it is only theirs

No surprise gentiles were taught such nonsense...and believe it.

Israel was His bride so her having a bride is well...abominable...

Also no surprise this sorcery is practiced on Friday night...Friday night as the beginning of Sabbaths, with candle lighting and all that, was brought back from babylon...

Biblical days begin in the morning just as sure as evenings end the daylight portion and mornings end the darkness...there was evening and there was morning...the completion of one day...

Deceptions are indeed critical to maintain Sunday worship...

Hi Clefty, how can you quote from Genesis 1:5 or any of the other days of creation where it says an evening and a morning are a day and then in the same breath of the same statement try to say that it means something other than what it clearly says? Isn't it clear from that simple statement which is spoken six times that an evening and a morning are a day? And the day is twelve hours so the days are divided just after midday. The Torah also tells us when evening time commences and that is "when the women go forth to draw water", (Genesis 24:11), and from the context of John 4:6-7 the author clearly reveals that this is about the sixth hour of the day. Thus evening time is the time when the sun has reached its zenith or apex in the sky and begins its downward trek into the western sky. That is likely why the Passover is commanded to be slain "between the evenings" and in "the going down of the sun". The going down of the sun begins immediately following midday and the sun continues going down until sundown is complete: that is an evening, and it consists of about six hours, and it takes an evening and a morning to make a twelve hour day.

 

[clefty]

Evening ends the daylight portion.


Morning ends the night.


One day is now complete.


"There was an evening and there was a morning...one day"

You can't have evening without light...it went from eternal darkness to "Light!" and then the evening came...then the morning...one day

Google it up..."when does the biblical day begin"etc.

Here's a good intro...

Here is some historical evidence that supports the Biblical Truism that a day begins at sunrise: “Meaning of “day”: In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. 1:5), lasting from dawn (literally “the rising of the morning”) to the coming forth of the stars” (Jewish Encyclopedia, page 475)

“In order to assure against profanation of the Sabbath the Jews added the late Friday afternoon hours to the Sabbath” (The Jewish Festivals: History & Observance, p.13).

[Note: The Jews changed the configuration of a day and added the time between sunset and sunrise to the day. This is not Biblical but constitutes a pharisaical approach!]

“If we look at the essentials of a day of rest and reflection which has a religious orientation, it is possible to justify the shifting of Sabbath worship to Friday evening, the celebration of the vigil/night watch was moved back to the eve of the Feast as early as the middle ages…” (Judaism: Between Yesterday and Tomorrow, p. 518).

“…a sacred day of rest on the 7th day (the Sabbath). Days were reckoned from morning to morning…” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, pg. 1068).

“Following the reign of King Josiah (c. 640-609), and especially after the Babylonian exile, a number of significant and enduring changes occurred in the Israelite calendar showing that the Jews gradually adopted the Babylonian calendar of the time…The day however, was counted from evening to evening, after the Babylonian fashion….” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, section titled “Later Jewish Calendar”).

“…shortly after the beginning of the Greek period, [236 BC] came the change in the method of reckoning the day, from evening to evening instead of from morning to morning as of old…” (The Calendars of Ancient Israel, p. 146)

http://christianitybeliefs.org/the-...-that-prove-that-a-day-starts-in-the-morning/


Keep in mind Sunday keepers need the sundown to be start of next day...as biblical days beginning in the morning destroys Sunday resurrection as all that was discovered that morning was an empty tomb...He was risen the day/night before. They can't argue..."but but but Sunday started before dawn"

A powerful example of good (evidence for timing of biblical days) coming from evil...

"So they made their father drink wine that night. And the first-born went in and lay with her father, and he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she arose. And it came to be on the next day that the first-born said to the younger, “See, I lay with my father last night. Let us make him drink wine tonight as well, and you go in and lie with him, so that we keep the seed of our father” ” (Gen. 19:33-34).

 

[daqq]

Evening ends the daylight portion.


Morning ends the night.


One day is complete.


"There was an evening and there was a morning...one day"

You can't have evening without light...it went from eternal darkness to "Light!" and then the evening came...then the morning...one day

Google it up..."when does the biblical day begin"etc.

Here's a good intro...

Here is some historical evidence that supports the Biblical Truism that a day begins at sunrise: “Meaning of “day”: In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. 1:5), lasting from dawn (literally “the rising of the morning”) to the coming forth of the stars” (Jewish Encyclopedia, page 475)

“In order to assure against profanation of the Sabbath the Jews added the late Friday afternoon hours to the Sabbath” (The Jewish Festivals: History & Observance, p.13).

[Note: The Jews changed the configuration of a day and added the time between sunset and sunrise to the day. This is not Biblical but constitutes a pharisaical approach!]

“If we look at the essentials of a day of rest and reflection which has a religious orientation, it is possible to justify the shifting of Sabbath worship to Friday evening, the celebration of the vigil/night watch was moved back to the eve of the Feast as early as the middle ages…” (Judaism: Between Yesterday and Tomorrow, p. 518).

“…a sacred day of rest on the 7th day (the Sabbath). Days were reckoned from morning to morning…” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, pg. 1068).

“Following the reign of King Josiah (c. 640-609), and especially after the Babylonian exile, a number of significant and enduring changes occurred in the Israelite calendar showing that the Jews gradually adopted the Babylonian calendar of the time…The day however, was counted from evening to evening, after the Babylonian fashion….” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, section titled “Later Jewish Calendar”).

“…shortly after the beginning of the Greek period, [236 BC] came the change in the method of reckoning the day, from evening to evening instead of from morning to morning as of old…” (The Calendars of Ancient Israel, p. 146)

http://christianitybeliefs.org/the-...-that-prove-that-a-day-starts-in-the-morning/


Keep in mind Sunday keepers need the sundown to be start of next day...as biblical days beginning in the morning destroys Sunday resurrection as all that was discovered that morning was an empty tomb...He was risen the day/night before. They can't argue..."but but but Sunday started before dawn"

A powerful example of good (evidence for timing of biblical days) coming from evil...

"So they made their father drink wine that night. And the first-born went in and lay with her father, and he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she arose. And it came to be on the next day that the first-born said to the younger, “See, I lay with my father last night. Let us make him drink wine tonight as well, and you go in and lie with him, so that we keep the seed of our father” ” (Gen. 19:33-34).

That all appears to be hypothesis and references to historical practices but none of it really has any bearing on what was said and the scripture which was posted. Even though it might be a "good argument" against "Sunday keepers" does that make it a correct argument? I'm more concerned with understanding the week of the Passion of Messiah. If one does not adhere to what the Torah prescribes then the same will not understand most of the critical statements concerning the Passion week. One example is how the day Yeshua was crucified is called both the preparation and the epiphoskos of Shabbat. And what is the epiphoskos of Shabbat? It is the "firstlight" of Shabbat which is the evening before and therefore essentially the first half of the Shabbat, (from the sixth hour of the day until the twelfth hour of the day because an evening and a morning are a day). If we desire to understand the scripture then we must believe everything which is clearly written so that the things that seem fuzzy to us will eventually come to light, (in the Testimony of Yeshua), and the six statements from the Genesis creation account, concerning what constitutes a day, are clear emphatic statements.

 

[clefty]

That all appears to be hypothesis and references to historical practices but none of it really has any bearing on what was said and the scripture which was posted. Even though it might be a "good argument" against "Sunday keepers" does that make it a correct argument? I'm more concerned with understanding the week of the Passion of Messiah. If one does not adhere to what the Torah prescribes then the same will not understand most of the critical statements concerning the Passion week. One example is how the day Yeshua was crucified is called both the preparation and the epiphoskos of Shabbat. And what is the epiphoskos of Shabbat? It is the "firstlight" of Shabbat which is the evening before and therefore essentially the first half of the Shabbat, (from the sixth hour of the day until the twelfth hour of the day because an evening and a morning are a day). If we desire to understand the scripture then we must believe everything which is clearly written so that the things that seem fuzzy to us will eventually come to light, (in the Testimony of Yeshua), and the six statements from the Genesis creation account, concerning what constitutes a day, are clear emphatic statements.

I see you have been here before on another thread on this subject.

Didn't convince you?

Well maybe I can...lol

Let's start with the creation then.

If night comes before day in the Genesis account how was the night portion of the first day seperated from the darkness that covered the deep which came before it? Was it darkness and then night of the first dsy?

Was that first day incomplete as it had no night? There was only darkness then suddenly the light. Light divided the constant darkness and then it, in turn, became evening. Evening demands light. Dying light. I don't think He said let there be evening, or dying light.

The light He called day, not evening, the dark he called night. Notice the placement of the pattern. First day then night.

The creative work was always done during the daylight portion and then it WAS evening and then it WAS morning. The number of the day however; attributed to the work done on it.

He called it heaven...then evening came (ending the day heaven was made)...then morning (ending the night following the day heaven was made) ...and all WERE/WAS the second day.

This is the pattern for six days. Creative work done evening comes and then morning and the numbering of the day...until the seventh. He rests on that day, it already being the seventh. He doesn't rest on the evening to rest but the day. Nor does He wait for evening and then morning and then the numbering.

The seventh day was set apart. A little unique.

I strongly suggest you be Berrean about this and study it out. What has been done to scripture is criminal and I have already established motive.

 

[daqq]

I see you have been here before on another thread on this subject.

Didn't convince you?

Well maybe I can...lol

Let's start with the creation then.

If night comes before day in the Genesis account how was the night portion of the first day seperated from the
darkness that covered the deep which came before it? Was it darkness and then night?

Was that first day incomplete as it had no night? There was only darkness then suddenly the light. Light divided the constant darkness and then it in turn became evening. Evening demands light. Dying light. I don't think He said let there be evening, or dying light.

The light He called day, not evening, the dark he called night. Notice the placement of the pattern. First day then night.

The creative work was always done during the day light portion then it was evening and then morning. The number of the day attributed to the work done on it.

He called it heaven...then evening came...then morning...WERE the second day.

This is the pattern for six days. Creative work done evening comes and then morning and the numbering of the day...until the seventh. He rests on that day it already being the seventh. He doesn't rest on the evening nor wait for evening and then morning and then the numbering.

The seventh day was set apart. A little unique.

I strongly suggest you be Berrean about this and study it out. What has been done to scripture is criminal and I have already established motive.

Nice try but no cigar.

The creation days are yamim-hours, that is, six yamim-hours of spoken Word, (not full yom-days of twenty four hours). There is no night. Every hour waxes and wanes. The first evening morning is the waning and the waxing of an hour because it commences just as at Golgotha: at about the midst of the third hour of the day or the "bottom of the hour". The New Creation Genesis is fulfilled in Messiah at Golgotha in the hours of the crucifixion. The third hour is the time of the morning daily ascending offering. There is no night in the New Creation Genesis, not even between the days at what you might imagine as "night time" because it is not speaking of twenty four hour days but rather the six yamim-hours of spoken Word creation; look yourself at the end of the book, (Rev 21:25), there is no night. :chuckle:

 

[jamie]

Keep in mind Sunday keepers need the sundown to be start of next day...

Luke 23:54 NET It was the day of preparation and the Sabbath was beginning.

As Jesus was laid in the tomb the Sabbath began. This Sabbath was the first day of the week of Passover when unleavened bread must be eaten.

The women observed the annual Sabbath and the next day after the Sabbath they bought and prepared spices to anoint Jesus' body.

Then they rested on the weekly Sabbath and went to the tomb on the morning of the first day of the weeks that precede Pentecost.

 

[jamie]

Was that first day incomplete as it had no night?

The earth rotates on its axis. Night is when one side of the earth is not facing the sun.

As the earth rotates it becomes daylight on the side that was night.

The Night to be Much Observed is the evening that begins the 15th of Nisan.

Exodus 12:42 It is a night of solemn observance to the LORD for bringing them out of the land of Egypt. This is that night of the LORD, a solemn observance for all the children of Israel throughout their generations.

This is the night the Passover is eaten and nothing shall be left until morning.

Exodus 34:25 You shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leaven, nor shall the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover be left until morning.

Numbers 33:3 They departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the day after the Passover the children of Israel went out with boldness in the sight of all the Egyptians.

 

[clefty]

Nice try but no cigar.

Well ok then...

The creation days are yamim-hours, that is, six yamim-hours of spoken Word, (not full yom-days of twenty four hours). There is no night. Every hour waxes and wanes. The first evening morning is the waning and the waxing of an hour because it commences just as at Golgotha: at about the midst of the third hour of the day or the "bottom of the hour". The New Creation Genesis is fulfilled in Messiah at Golgotha in the hours of the crucifixion. The third hour is the time of the morning daily ascending offering. There is no night in the New Creation Genesis, not even between the days at what you might imagine as "night time" because it is not speaking of twenty four hour days but rather the six yamim-hours of spoken Word creation; look yourself at the end of the book, (Rev 21:25), there is no night. :chuckle:

Wow...So at the end where and when the light of Him is so radiant that...oh never mind...the more complicated and esoteric the better I imagine...like all secret knowledges and other gospels...

I certainly don't recognize this Sabbath or creation story or passion week. It is like they took Sabbath and made it into something else...just made it up like their Purim...rabbinic tradition at its finest...

Hope you can give some cliff notes on all this...but until then I will keep it to scripture...and avoid cigars

 

[clefty]

Luke 23:54 NET It was the day of preparation and the Sabbath was beginning.

As Jesus was laid in the tomb the Sabbath began. This Sabbath was the first day of the week of Passover when unleavened bread must be eaten.

Yes killing the lamb was part of the preparation for the passing over of His wrath. Not preparation for the weekly Sabbath. Although being a high Sabbath they hurried home as they had much to do to prepare the meal and eat it that night before sunrise.

The women observed the annual Sabbath and the next day after the Sabbath they bought and prepared spices to anoint Jesus' body.

Then they rested on the weekly Sabbath and went to the tomb on the morning of the first day of the weeks that precede Pentecost.

There was much to do in getting down Him from the cross to the tomb including getting not one but two emergency meetings with Roman leaders during after hours on a high holiday...imagine the bedlam...it was already evening when He died you think all this happened before sundown? Plus the meal.

Again, the lambs were to be eaten THAT night on the same day they were killed,the 14th, when first born blood was spilt at midnight of the same day...not the 15th.

 

[daqq]

Well ok then...



Wow...So at the end where and when the light of Him is so radiant that...oh never mind...the more complicated and esoteric the better I imagine...like all secret knowledges and other gospels...

I certainly don't recognize this Sabbath or creation story or passion week. It is like they took Sabbath and made it into something else...just made it up like their Purim...rabbinic tradition at its finest...

Hope you can give some cliff notes on all this...but until then I will keep it to scripture...and avoid cigars

The things I have said are already in the scripture. If you do not know the things I have spoken about then why would you "strongly suggest" that I "be Berrean about this and study it out"? Here is just one of the simple little things I have pointed to but apparently you had no clue what I was talking about:

Luke 23:54
54 και ημερα ην παρασκευης και σαββατον επεφωσκεν

That does not say what most English translations say that it says. :crackup:
But to each his or her own I suppose . . .

 

[clefty]

The things I have said are already in the scripture.

so is handling a snake but is that actually snake handling? There is much in translation and interpretation...

If you do not know the things I have spoken about then why would you "strongly suggest" that I "be Berrean about this and study it out"?

that's the rule for everybody not just you...it's my way of encouraging study discussion and oh yeah...sharing...

Here is just one of the simple little things I have pointed to but apparently you had no clue what I was talking about:

Luke 23:54
54 και ημερα ην παρασκευης και σαββατον επεφωσκεν

That does not say what most English translations say that it says. :crackup:
But to each his or her own I suppose . . .

A lot of scripture is like that...but what you suppose is not very Berrean...or in scripture

But it is rabbinic...an attitude found in the Zohar...

 

[daqq]

so is handling a snake but is that actually snake handling? There is much in translation and interpretation...

that's the rule for everybody not just you...it's my way of encouraging study discussion and oh yeah...sharing...



A lot of scripture is like that...but what you suppose is not very Berrean...or in scripture

But it is rabbinic...an attitude found in the Zohar...

Lol, nope, no Zohar, just a bunch of scripture so far, beginning with Gen 1:5, Gen 24:11, and John 4:6-7, for which you are only making excuses, (at my expense), for why you choose not to believe what those scripture passages clearly say.

 

[clefty]

Lol, nope, no Zohar, just a bunch of scripture so far, beginning with Gen 1:5, Gen 24:11, and John 4:6-7, for which you are only making excuses, (at my expense), for why you choose not to believe what those scripture passages clearly say.

Aaaah good... scripture...

The light He called day the dark He called night

Notice what comes first?

He didn't create darkness as it already existed...but not as night

And after light was created it became evening and then night and then morning....were day one

Camels were made on the daylight portion of the sixth day....and then evening came then night and then morning completing day six...but on the morning of the seventh daylight portion He ceased to work; rested and was refreshed. ...and blessed it the seventh day

 

[daqq]

Aaaah good... scripture...

The light He called day the dark He called night

Notice what comes first?

He didn't create darkness as it already existed...but not as night

And after light was created it became evening and then night and then morning....were day one

Camels were made on the daylight portion of the sixth day....and then evening came then night and then morning completing day six...but on the morning of the seventh daylight portion He ceased to work; rested and was refreshed. ...and blessed it the seventh day

According to your theory Elohim must have rested or ceased from His work through twelve hours of darkness for every night that passed between the six days of creation. Or do you suppose He continued speaking through your twelve hour nights? And in addition to that the greater and the lesser lights were not even spoken into existence until the fourth day. Lol, you should have listened to reason but then of course that would mean you might need to forfeit your beloved theory, eh? How can you not see that your theory is completely unreasonable? Do you really suppose that there are an hundred and forty-four hours of continuous spoken word in the six days of creation written in the first chapter of Genesis? A yom can be a year, a yom can even be an age, a yom can be an unspecified amount of time, a yom can simply mean daylight, but God forbid it ever means an hour because none of the wonderful English translations say so anywhere and it would really throw a wrench into your beloved theory I suppose. Tisk, tisk. :chuckle: