How important is the Sabbath?

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Luke 23:54
54 και ημερα ην παρασκευης και σαββατον επεφωσκεν


That does not say what most English translations say that it says. :crackup:
But to each his or her own I suppose . . . :)

Right, epiphosko (επεφωσκεν) can refer to the beginning of a 24-hour day or a 12-hour day.

In Luke 23:54 it refers to a 24-hour day and in Matthew 28:1 it refers to a 12-hour day.

The word epiphosko is only used twice.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Right, epiphosko (επεφωσκεν) can refer to the beginning of a 24-hour day or a 12-hour day.

In Luke 23:54 it refers to a 24-hour day and in Matthew 28:1 it refers to a 12-hour day.

The word epiphosko is only used twice.

Perhaps it is only used twice in your canon but the Gospel of Peter predates all English translations being that it was found buried with an eighth century monk in Egypt. It employs epiphosko two times and one of those times is at night. The only way to properly understand it would therefore be something to the effect of, "firstlight dawning" or simply "firstlight" regardless of what time of day or night it might be; for that is how the word is used here whether one considers the writing to be canon or not. And if we break down the compound words that make up epiphosko this is essentially what the two words mean; "epi", (upon, at), and "phos", (light), so the basic components of the compound are very simple and mean, "upon light", for which the most logical understanding would be "firstlight", ("firstlight dawning" if understood as a verb).

KATA PETRON
34 πρωιας δε, επιφωσκοντος του σαββατου, ηλθεν οχλος απο Ιερουσαλημ και της περιχωρου ινα ιδωσι το μνημειον εσφραγισμενον.
35 Τη δε νυκτι η επεφωσκεν η κυριακη, φυλασσοντων των στρατιωτων ανα δυο δυο κατα φρουραν, μεγαλη, φωνη εγενετο εν τω ουρανω και ειδον ανοιχθεντας τους ουρανους και δυο ανδρας κατελθοντας εκειθε, πολυ φεγγος εχοντας και επισταντας τω ταφω.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/peter-greek.html

As one may see, "epephosken", (the same exact form which is found in Luke 23:54), is employed herein with nukti, which is night. Kuriake is also found here as well as in another passage, (which means "pertaining to the Master" or "pertaining to the Lord" as found in Rev 1:10, "the day Kuriake"). Likewise this author clearly relates the very day wherein Yeshua was crucified at the end of the account; for he states that the feast had entirely come to an end after the Shabbat, and therefore the Shabbat spoken of is the Great or High Shabbat of 20 Abib, the Mikra Kodesh of the seventh day, and Yeshua was therefore crucified on the morning of 19 Abib. And I know these things to be true from the Torah because the entire feast of Passover-Unleavened Bread is viewed as the etsem-body of one great day and the seventh day is also called a Chag-Feast unto YHWH, (Exodus 13:6).
 

daqq

Well-known member
The 24-hour begins at evening and the 12-hour day begins at dawn.

Again, no scripture to support your bold emphatic statement? Is there anyone here that actually believes the scripture? An evening and a morning are a day, (Gen 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31), and evening time commences when the women go forth to draw water, (Gen 24:11) and women go forth to draw water at about the sixth hour of the day, (John 4:6-7 KJV), and a full yom-day consists of twelve yamim-hours according to the twelve tribes of Yisrael, (Numbers 7:11-88 KJV, John 11:9), and therefore the calendar days are divided in the midst of full light, immediately following midday-noon, when the sun has passed over its apex or zenith in the sky overhead and begins its downward trek into the western sky which is called "the going down of the sun", (Deut 16:6 KJV). A calendar day thus likely ends with the seventh hour of the day which is the seventh hour Shabbat of each and every day: in the seventh hour of the seventh day is a Shabbat in its Shabbat, (Numbers 28:10 YLT).
 

daqq

Well-known member
You've never observed the Day of Atonement have you?

What does my observance have to do with what the scripture says, which has been posted, which you are ignoring and obfuscating while pointing a finger at me? I observe Yom Kippurim according to the commandment just the same as Yeshua observed the Passover with his talmidim in the Gospel accounts from evening to evening.
 
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daqq

Well-known member
You've never observed the Day of Atonement have you?

Leviticus 23:26-32
26 And YHWH spoke unto Moshe, saying:
27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto YHWH.
28 And you shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before YHWH you Elohey.
29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
30 And whatsoever soul it be that does any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
31 You shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
32 It shall be unto you a Shabbat shabbaton, and you shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening unto evening, you shall shabat your Shabbat.


And what is a Shabbat shabbaton? It is a weekly Shabbat of Rest, (shabbatown means rest). Therefore, if one truly desires to observe Yom Kippurim correctly, on the correct day, then his or her calendar must ALWAYS have Yom Kippurim fall on a weekly Shabbat, that is to say, the tenth day of the seventh month is ALWAYS a weekly Shabbat of rest, (Shabbat shabbaton). Judaism to this day does NOT observe such a thing.
 

clefty

New member
According to your theory Elohim must have rested or ceased from His work through twelve hours of darkness for every night that passed between the six days of creation.

Maybe. Not quite sure what He did, but it does say He ceased from His work of creation and rested on the SEVENTH DAY not every night in between.

Maybe after every act of creation, like an artist, He just sort of paused and admired what He did.

Maybe it takes Him twelve hours to say "Let...there...be...light" and then another twelve hours to inhale for the next utterance.

Or maybe the timing is intentional. The creation was for us after all...for man, not for Him. He created for us and every artist knows timing is everything for the piece to be successful. So maybe He created the time frames and merely waited, like a good musician, for the next beat, knowing it was beneficial for us.



Or do you suppose He continued speaking through your twelve hour nights?
My God can be silent too...be still and know...

And in addition to that the greater and the lesser lights were not even spoken into existence until the fourth day. Lol, you should have listened to reason but then of course that would mean you might need to forfeit your beloved theory, eh?

It's not my theory...learned it from others...oh and scripture...

And laugh it up, but creating the day and night pattern before the greater and lesser lights were made (or appointed) actually works in my favor. He saw fit to place them, the sun and the moon, into the cadence He established the 3 days and nights before. See? The pattern was established first and then He caused its rhythm and pattern to be sustained by luminous bodies, time keeping tools to keep His time which He created to sustain us. Sadly so many just worship the tools and not the appointer of times.

Yup, darkness was on the face of the deep and then light...day...and then night...no way He could have said "let there be darkness!" It already was...but it was not called night.


How can you not see that your theory is completely unreasonable? Do you really suppose that there are an hundred and forty-four hours of continuous spoken word in the six days of creation written in the first chapter of Genesis?
LoL of course not. He spoke and it was so. And then waited to speak again. Before the moral laws were introduced the natural laws were laid in place. Makes sense and is a pattern Yahushua followed by feeding and healing first then teaching.


A yom can be a year, a yom can even be an age, a yom can be an unspecified amount of time, a yom can simply mean daylight, but God forbid it ever means an hour because none of the wonderful English translations say so anywhere and it would really throw a wrench into your beloved theory I suppose. Tisk, tisk. :chuckle:
yom? Yawn...how long is that? Your post?

Again, like Sabbath, all of creation was made for us and our benefit including time and timing...and for it to be anything besides what is written and understood as a day of creation is not really benefitting us is it?

Was that first Sabbath a flash in time or an age?

Funny how He could have spoke it ALL into existence in merely an instant but waited and deliberately designed a home here on earth for us...good luck keeping Sabbath on Mars...

Even those who believe in evolution try to mess with the timing of creation and extend what a day is to include an age...all to what end?
 
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daqq

Well-known member
Maybe. Not quite sure what He did, but it does say He ceased from His work of creation and rested on the SEVENTH DAY not every night in between.

Maybe after every act of creation, like an artist, He just sort of paused and admired what He did.

Maybe it takes Him twelve hours to say "Let...there...be...light" and then another twelve hours to inhale for the next utterance.

Or maybe the timing is intentional. The creation was for us after all...for man, not for Him. He created for us and every artist knows timing is everything for the piece to be successful. So maybe He created the time frames and merely waited, like a good musician, for the next beat, knowing it was beneficial for us.



My God can be silent too...be still and know...



It's not my theory...learned it from others...oh and scripture...

And laugh it up, but creating the day and night pattern before the greater and lesser lights were made (or appointed) actually works in my favor. He saw fit to place them, the sun and the moon, into the cadence He established the 3 days and nights before. See? The pattern was established first and then He caused its rhythm and pattern to be sustained by luminous bodies, time keeping tools to keep His time which He created to sustain us. Sadly so many just worship the tools and not the appointer of times.

Yup, darkness was on the face of the deep and then light...day...and then night...no way He could have said "let there be darkness!" It already was...but it was not called night.


LoL of course not. He spoke and it was so. And then waited to speak again. Before the moral laws were introduced the natural laws were laid in place. Makes sense and is a pattern Yahushua followed by feeding and healing first then teaching.


yom? Yawn...how long is that? Your post?

Again, like Sabbath, all of creation was made for us and our benefit including time and timing...and for it to be anything besides what is written and understood as a day of creation is not really benefitting us is it?

Was that first Sabbath a flash in time or an age?

Funny how He could have spoke it ALL into existence in merely an instant but waited and deliberately designed a home here on earth for us...good luck keeping Sabbath on Mars...

Even those who believe in evolution try to mess with the timing of creation and extend what a day is to include an age...all to what end?

I have no idea how you can logically come to the conclusion that a twelve hour "pause" during a twelve hour night is not a cessation of work or a rest from labors, (especially when the work or labor specifically concerns spoken Word). The fact that you come to that conclusion merely serves to show how far the natural mind will go into its own delusion so as to hold on to the natural things it believes to always be true and to always have been true. There are so many passages which refute your thinking concerning what constitutes a yom, and how there are indeed yamim-hours within a yom, (such as the seven yamim in a yom in Isaiah 30:26 for example), it is laughable that you would suggest to anyone other than yourself to "go search it out like a Berean".
 

clefty

New member
I have no idea how you can logically come to the conclusion that a twelve hour "pause" during a twelve hour night is not a cessation of work or a rest from labors, (especially when the work or labor specifically concerns spoken Word). The fact that you come to that conclusion merely serves to show how far the natural mind will go into its own delusion so as to hold on to the natural things it believes to always be true and to always have been true. There are so many passages which refute your thinking concerning what constitutes a yom, and how there are indeed yamim-hours within a yom, (such as the seven yamim in a yom in Isaiah 30:26 for example), it is laughable that you would suggest to anyone other than yourself to "go search it out like a Berean".

Even infants (they say) think the mother disappears when she merely is in the other room. Or the disgruntled workers who complain the boss isn't doing anything when he isn't in the room. Both the mother and the boss are minding responsibilities elsewhere. In the creation account we were told what was important to us. Many things were not written or the books would be endless...but we were instructed not to make changes to the one we did receive.

Your "sun of the seven parts" reminds me of the furnace built for the three Hebrews which was kindled seven times hotter...not sure it burnt for seven yoms...

But yes...be Berrean...I am still here
 

daqq

Well-known member
Even infants (they say) think the mother disappears when she merely is in the other room. Or the disgruntled workers who complain the boss isn't doing anything when he isn't in the room. Both the mother and the boss are minding responsibilities elsewhere. In the creation account we were told what was important to us. Many things were not written or the books would be endless...but we were instructed not to make changes to the one we did receive.

Your "sun of the seven parts" reminds me of the furnace built for the three Hebrews which was kindled seven times hotter...not sure it burnt for seven yoms...

But yes...be Berrean...I am still here

That's the problem right there: I'm not the one making changes except to correct what your favorite translations have changed. Here is yet another example and please show me an English translation that renders both occurrences of yom in each verse if you think you can find one:

Numbers 7:72 WLC
בְּיֹום֙ עַשְׁתֵּ֣י עָשָׂ֣ר יֹ֔ום נָשִׂ֖יא לִבְנֵ֣י אָשֵׁ֑ר פַּגְעִיאֵ֖ל בֶּן־עָכְרָֽן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm

Numbers 7:78 WLC
בְּיֹום֙ שְׁנֵ֣ים עָשָׂ֣ר יֹ֔ום נָשִׂ֖יא לִבְנֵ֣י נַפְתָּלִ֑י אֲחִירַ֖ע בֶּן־עֵינָֽן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-78.htm

Here they are in transliteration:

Numbers 7:72 Transliterated
72 bə·yō·wm ‘aš·tê ‘ā·śār yō·wm, nā·śî liḇ·nê ’ā·šêr; paḡ·‘î·’êl ben- ‘ā·ḵə·rān.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/transliterated/numbers/7.htm

Numbers 7:78 Transliterated
78 bə·yō·wm šə·nêm ‘ā·śār yō·wm, nā·śî liḇ·nê nap̄·tā·lî; ’ă·ḥî·ra‘ ben- ‘ê·nān.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/transliterated/numbers/7.htm

There is only one way to properly render these two statements without being forced to OMIT one instance of YOM from each verse; and that is to render one of the yom in each verse as an hour. It is written this way INTENTIONALLY so that there be no mistaking what the scripture is saying. You cannot say in any language, "the eleventh day of the day", or, "the twelfth day of the day", so what do your favorite English translations all do? They of course OMIT one occurrence of yom from each verse because they do not understand what it says right there in front of them. The context is the key, as with everything, for this is the YOM-DAY wherein the altar was anointed. It is clearly stated more than once to be a SINGLE DAY, (Numbers 7:10-11 KJV and Numbers 7:84 KJV), and therefore this single YOM-DAY in which the altar was anointed contains TWELVE HOURS in which each prince of each tribe offered the corban of his tribe each in his own YOM-HOUR of the YOM-DAY. The same thing happens also in Genesis 2:4 where immediately after the six days of creation and the sanctification of the seventh day, the scripture says, "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the YOM-DAY that YHWH Elohim made the earth and the heavens", the scripture calls it all a single YOM-DAY. Again, there is no night there, at least not when you become a new creation immersed in the Testimony of Yeshua, (for that is where I learned these things believe it or not).

Numbers 7:72a Transliterated
72a bə·yō·wm ‘aš·tê ‘ā·śār yō·wm --
72a In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day --

Numbers 7:78a Transliterated
78a bə·yō·wm šə·nêm ‘ā·śār yō·wm --
78a In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day --
 

daqq

Well-known member
It is clearly stated more than once to be a SINGLE DAY, (Numbers 7:10-11 KJV and Numbers 7:84 KJV), and therefore this single YOM-DAY in which the altar was anointed contains TWELVE HOURS in which each prince of each tribe offered the corban of his tribe each in his own YOM-HOUR of the YOM-DAY.

I happened to notice while posting the above that the forum default scripture ref-tag NKJV also omits YOM from the passages which I was referencing to make my point. That means that the translators of the NKJV must have seen the problem with the old KJV translation of those passages within the overall context and showed themselves even twofold worse than their predecessors and decided to OMIT the occurrence of YOM in those critical statements also! Better be a Berean and do your own homework! :chuckle:

Numbers 7:10 Transliterated
10 way·yaq·rî·ḇū han·nə·śi·’îm, ’êṯ ḥă·nuk·kaṯ ham·miz·bê·aḥ, bə·yō·wm him·mā·šaḥ ’ō·ṯōw; way·yaq·rî·ḇū han·nə·śî·’im ’eṯ- qā·rə·bā·nām lip̄·nê ham·miz·bê·aḥ.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/transliterated/numbers/7.htm

Numbers 7:10 KJV
10 And the princes offered for dedicating of the altar in the day that it was anointed, even the princes offered their offering before the altar.

But no mention of a YOM-DAY in the modern NKJV?
Another OMISSION of a YOM-DAY in the NKJV?

Numbers 7:10 NKJV
10 Now the leaders offered the dedication offering for the altar when it was anointed; so the leaders offered their offering before the altar.

And likewise the other passage which drives the point home:

Numbers 7:84 transliterated
84 zōṯ ḥă·nuk·kaṯ ham·miz·bê·aḥ, bə·yō·wm him·mā·šaḥ ’ō·ṯōw, mê·’êṯ nə·śî·’ê yiś·rā·’êl; qa·‘ă·rōṯ ke·sep̄ šə·têm ‘eś·rêh, miz·rə·qê- ḵe·sep̄ šə·nêm ‘ā·śār, kap·pō·wṯ zā·hāḇ šə·têm ‘eś·rêh.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/transliterated/numbers/7.htm

Numbers 7:84 KJV
84 This was the dedication of the altar, in the day when it was anointed, by the princes of Israel: twelve chargers of silver, twelve silver bowls, twelve spoons of gold:


But no mention of a YOM-DAY which is right there in the text??
Yet another OMISSION of a YOM-DAY by the NKJV??

Numbers 7:84 NKJV
84 This was the dedication offering for the altar from the leaders of Israel, when it was anointed: twelve silver platters, twelve silver bowls, and twelve gold pans.

Wow, talk about changing the Word of Elohim . . .
Lucy, somebody gonna have alotta splainin to do! :)
 

clefty

New member
That's the problem right there: I'm not the one making changes except to correct what your favorite translations have changed. Here is yet another example and please show me an English translation that renders both occurrences of yom in each verse if you think you can find one:

Numbers 7:72 WLC
בְּיֹום֙ עַשְׁתֵּ֣י עָשָׂ֣ר יֹ֔ום נָשִׂ֖יא לִבְנֵ֣י אָשֵׁ֑ר פַּגְעִיאֵ֖ל בֶּן־עָכְרָֽן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm

Numbers 7:78 WLC
בְּיֹום֙ שְׁנֵ֣ים עָשָׂ֣ר יֹ֔ום נָשִׂ֖יא לִבְנֵ֣י נַפְתָּלִ֑י אֲחִירַ֖ע בֶּן־עֵינָֽן׃
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-78.htm

Here they are in transliteration:

Numbers 7:72 Transliterated
72 bə·yō·wm ‘aš·tê ‘ā·śār yō·wm, nā·śî liḇ·nê ’ā·šêr; paḡ·‘î·’êl ben- ‘ā·ḵə·rān.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/transliterated/numbers/7.htm

Numbers 7:78 Transliterated
78 bə·yō·wm šə·nêm ‘ā·śār yō·wm, nā·śî liḇ·nê nap̄·tā·lî; ’ă·ḥî·ra‘ ben- ‘ê·nān.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/transliterated/numbers/7.htm

There is only one way to properly render these two statements without being forced to OMIT one instance of YOM from each verse; and that is to render one of the yom in each verse as an hour. It is written this way INTENTIONALLY so that there be no mistaking what the scripture is saying. You cannot say in any language, "the eleventh day of the day", or, "the twelfth day of the day", so what do your favorite English translations all do? They of course OMIT one occurrence of yom from each verse because they do not understand what it says right there in front of them. The context is the key, as with everything, for this is the YOM-DAY wherein the altar was anointed. It is clearly stated more than once to be a SINGLE DAY, (Numbers 7:10-11 KJV and Numbers 7:84 KJV), and therefore this single YOM-DAY in which the altar was anointed contains TWELVE HOURS in which each prince of each tribe offered the corban of his tribe each in his own YOM-HOUR of the YOM-DAY. The same thing happens also in Genesis 2:4 where immediately after the six days of creation and the sanctification of the seventh day, the scripture says, "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the YOM-DAY that YHWH Elohim made the earth and the heavens", the scripture calls it all a single YOM-DAY. Again, there is no night there, at least not when you become a new creation immersed in the Testimony of Yeshua, (for that is where I learned these things believe it or not).

Numbers 7:72a Transliterated
72a bə·yō·wm ‘aš·tê ‘ā·śār yō·wm --
72a In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day --

Numbers 7:78a Transliterated
78a bə·yō·wm šə·nêm ‘ā·śār yō·wm --
78a In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day --

The yom he made heaven and earth was before he made the light and called it day.

That's when darkness covered the face of the deep and the earth was well...covered in water and without form and void.

But then He made light and called it good and called it the first day after it turned to evening and then night then morning....one day
 
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daqq

Well-known member
You've never observed the Day of Atonement have you?

What does my observance have to do with what the scripture says, which has been posted, which you are ignoring and obfuscating while pointing a finger at me? I observe Yom Kippurim according to the commandment just the same as Yeshua observed the Passover with his talmidim in the Gospel accounts from evening to evening.

Hey dagg, you've never observed the Day of Atonement have you?

Your repeat question was already answered in the post above on this same page as soon as you had asked it the first time. The fact that you now insinuate that I am a liar and appear to be mocking the spelling of my name during this day only reveals what is in your own heart.
 
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jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yeah, I didn't think you had ever observed it since you don't know when it begins or ends.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Yeah, I didn't think you had ever observed it since you don't know when it begins or ends.

If you truly knew anything about observance you would not be judging the observance of another. :)
 
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jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The Day of Atonement, referred to as Yom Kippur, for 2016 is Wednesday October 12.
 

clefty

New member
The Day of Atonement, referred to as Yom Kippur, for 2016 is Wednesday October 12.

The Day of atonement is another example indicating biblical days do not begin in the evening.

Or else why would He instruct two days (both 9 and 10) for a 1 day holy day?

If indeed days began in the evening He would have merely said start on the 9th day. No need to for Him to specify "in the evening" as everybody already knew the days begin in the evening.

But He did specify to begin the holy day on the evening of the 9th as it turns to night. Did He intend to conflate a one day holy day with two days?

No.

He says to "afflict yourselves" which most interpret as fasting. If you start fasting the evening before the day starts by the time the day of atonement starts on the morning, beginning the 10th day of the month, you are well empty to repent, meditate, study and pray.

He requires 1 1/2 days of affliction but Rabbinic tradition makes it two full days...that is a yoke.

Fasting of course is not required and we are to choose which day we wish to do so.

Interestingly, despite clear teaching not to let any man judge you your eating or festivals, the Catholic Church obligates one to fast on her scheduled fast days but allows one main meal and two smaller ones throughout the day...some fast that is...
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The Day of atonement is another example indicating biblical days do not begin in the evening.

Leviticus 23:32 It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your Sabbath.​

The tenth day of the seventh month begins the evening after the ninth day.
 
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