How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

[clefty]

That's now how scripture tells the story.
Doesn't say anything about some serpent being used by an evil spirit.

part of the power of the scripture it tells a compelling narrative...it allows you insight from the view of most of the characters...how and why they chose what they do...just like in the garden of Eden...beginning with “Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field...” really sets the stage for understanding why Eve was deceived...imagine it starting “And Satan possessed the serpent and deceived Eve”...kinda looses the poetic element latent in the fall...we wouldnt identify with Eve as much...sill woman duh Satan was right there with his horns and red tail...lol

But being seduced to go conatrary to the Will of their Creator kinda infers that something anti-god was in the mix...something evil not of Yah...but like the appirition of Samual was it him or was it being used...just like the serpent.

“But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ” 2 Cor. 11:3

So again...was it just the serpent or something more? Was it Samuel or an apparition used?

Peter relates what scripture says.
It says nothing about an evil spirit taking over the donkey, but that the donkey spoke.

LOL? What? Evil spirit duh...reading the original context you would see it was Yah Who opened the mouth of the donkey...

But reading Peter you would think it actually was the donkey...just like reading about the witch you would think the old spirt wearing a hoody was Samuel who was speaking...when as with the serpent and the donkey it was another Spirit working through it...

Numbers 22:28-30 KJV
(28) And the LORD opened the mouth of the ***, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
(29) And Balaam said unto the ***, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.
(30) And the *** said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ***, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.

See you knew that...the irony the donkey spoke like a human and the human said “Neigh” lol you seem like a horse girl you should like that...

Scripture tells the story as it is meant to be told.

yes meant for you to ask and search and find what it really is meant to be told...not just give it a superficial go...or else like poor Saul you will “know” or “perceive” something that really isnt there...but you want it to be so you go with it...

Donkey asked human human said “Neigh” hahaha...

Was it really Samuel disturbed by a mere witch...”neigh”...ha...

Imagine if humans could summon up the dead whenever they wanted...good grief that would be redonkulous...HAHAHA

“HAY which horse is going to win Belmont?” Ok I will stop...”neeeeeiggggh!”

 

[meshak]

you would love this thread
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

No one budged from their position.

It was never ending talk or bickering..

 

[clefty]

No one budged from their position.

It was never ending talk or bickering..

Now THAT would be a good thread:

“Who here has been convinced otherwise by another poster?” Give evidence for what you first believed and then what you were convinced of by another poster...

Ha...

 

[meshak]

Now THAT would be a good thread:

“Who here has been convinced otherwise by another poster?” Give evidence for what you first believed and then what you were convinced of by another poster...

Ha...

I don't know if anyone is interested because most seem to believe they are right and everyone else is wrong if they don't agree with me.

Above all, most of us seems to love bickering.

 

[clefty]

Er, THIS thread is about life after death, not hell. lain:

not my fault yours keeps trying to insert hell into the life after death...stop doing that and it will return to resurrection after death and complete restoration to the way it was in Eden...no hell then...HAHAHA

I for one, could give a care less what you particularly think is breaking a top ten, by implication or accusation. If I break one before God, it will be my God's business, nunya (none-of-yours).

you not giving a care would be better than your leading others astray with your caring about your own view and prowess handling scripture bad enough to poke your neighbor’s eye out...

So do I have another god? Nope,none-ya. Do I worship an image? Nope, nunya. Bearing false witness? Nope. Does that include "false-accusation?" It 'seems' your accusatory isn't accurate to me :think:

seems...isnt accurate to me...lol again seeing how things seem to you is more amusing than edifying

You and I will stand before God. Idle words are those spoken without careful contemplation. To me? It doesn't 'seem' you've been careful.

to you...it doesnt seem...seriously how old are you pity such energy is wasted on narcissistic attention seeking...

Why are you even on TOL, given this?

you Lon...posters like you amuse me as stated earlier

It is trolling and inflammatory, lame accusation.

Him His Way > man’s tradition is trolling? Holy trolling maybe...HAHAHA inflammatory...you are the one going on about hell and stuff...

If you 'could' substantiate any of it, that'd be something. Just saying it/asserting it? No good.

it seems to you...lol

 

[clefty]

Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Right...correct...yup

But according to yours...the dead are able to be dialed up for personal gain and counsel at any time by witches...

 

[clefty]

You gave no scriptural evidence from this verse ,so your opinion is that verse is a lie

not at all...I know Peter is using poetic license in making his point...the donkey did spoke and the human said “Neigh” lol...oh man! still funny!

Num 22:28 Then the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?”
Num 22:29 And Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you have made a fool of me. I wish I had a sword in my hand, for then I would kill you.”
Num 22:30 And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?” And he said, “No.”

right so tell it to Peter who apparently he like Saul (or the writer of the tale) thinks it is the thing itself and not a Spirit animating it...

:think:
Gen 3:15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”
Eze 28:13
Eze 28:14
Eze 28:15

and? Was it the talkin serpent or something more sinister behind it?

Jesus is risen from the dead

BINGO so Abraham is WRONG...people ARE convinced by people being raised from the dead...

so Jesus was not teaching "no one believes one risen from the dead"

Luk 16:31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

good good yup...Jesus was NOT teaching it...Abraham was...and was proven wrong...silly folk tales are like that...

moreover what the prophet Samuel said came true
1Sa 28:19 Moreover, the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines.”

moreover what the serpent said was true...and the donkey...so?

You gave no scriptural evidence ,so it is your opinion is that the bible has lots of lies

That I dont post scripture I expect you to recall does not mean my opinion is the Bible has lots of lies...

Peter wrote the donkey spoke with a human voice...genesis its written a snake spoke...some disobedient Israelites believed the golden calf was the god that brought them out of egypt...Saul heard discribed what the witch brung up and believed what she said...all of these are written in scripture but it is not the case...not a lie...just not as written...

I would not say you are rejected of him but you are not interested in truth

oh ok...

 

[iouae]

On earth? Or period? What does Verse 6 say?
Your other 3 posts aren't scripture, just posturing so, if it is all the same to you, I'll ignore them.

You have ignored answering this verse too. Asking three questions is not answering anything. Its the cluck cluck cluck way out.

And verse 6 says exactly what verse 5 says.

When one is on a forum one gets a feel for posters. One begins to associate a name with a feeling that this poster has something worthwhile to say or not. My first impression of you Lon, from the very beginning, you were one of the first posters to make a good impression on me. Now, having actually tried to get a straight answer from you, it has been a bit of a disappointment. Post after post you actually say nothing, answer nothing, and seem to totally ignore scripture.

You are like the the pharmacist who reads a prescription for a vial of insulin, and fills the prescription with a pack of aspirin, that is how big I find the disconnect between what it says in the Bible, and what you describe it as saying.

When someone has such disregard for scripture as you have shown (and you boldface will say nobody presents you with scripture - when in fact it is you ignoring all the scriptures we present) flogging a dead horse is now the dominant impression I have about you.

Here again was the scripture I asked you to explain. Ecc 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

"On earth?" - they are dead Lon, so you tell me if they are on earth and why "on earth?" matters. "Or period?" How about trying to explain why "or period?" matters. If they are still alive, tell us what they are doing. And the next verse says the same - that major reading problem you have is in evidence. But it seems to be a reading problem exacerbated by reading any scripture.

 

[clefty]

I don't know if anyone is interested because most seem to believe they are right and everyone else is wrong if they don't agree with me.

Above all, most of us seems to love bickering.

Lol...true we enjoy the jostling as the disciples did...”PICK ME! PICK ME! PICK ME!” lol

Still would be an interesting thread to see if beliefs were swayed...

As it is the bickering allows me to see how various veiws are constructed and defended...

 

[iouae]

Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

The dead it seems have no emotions, no love, hate or envy (whereas the "Samuel" we see speaking to Saul was positively grouchy.

And they are now out of all the action taking place on earth - all the squabbles over who inherits their stuff etc. Sounds exactly like a person asleep to me - no emotions, no involvement with earthly matters.

Yet here is "Samuel" being totally involved after his death in the earthly matters of Saul. So thanks for pointing out this verse which too PROVES that the real Samuel was not the one involved with earthly matters, it was the familiar spirit posing as him.

But when one has such utter disconnect between the words on the page of a Bible, and those same words inside Lon's brain - I am expecting no apology from Lon for totally misrepresenting verse 6 too.

 

[clefty]

You have ignored answering this verse too. Asking three questions is not answering anything. Its the cluck cluck cluck way out.

And verse 6 says exactly what verse 5 says.

When one is on a forum one gets a feel for posters. One begins to associate a name with a feeling that this poster has something worthwhile to say or not. My first impression of you Lon, from the very beginning, you were one of the first posters to make a good impression on me. Now, having actually tried to get a straight answer from you, it has been a bit of a disappointment. Post after post you actually say nothing, answer nothing, and seem to totally ignore scripture.

You are like the the pharmacist who reads a prescription for a vial of insulin, and fills the prescription with a pack of aspirin, that is how big I find the disconnect between what it says in the Bible, and what you describe it as saying.

When someone has such disregard for scripture as you have shown (and you boldface will say nobody presents you with scripture - when in fact it is you ignoring all the scriptures we present) flogging a dead horse is now the dominant impression I have about you.

Here again was the scripture I asked you to explain. Ecc 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

"On earth?" - they are dead Lon, so you tell me if they are on earth and why "on earth?" matters. "Or period?" How about trying to explain why "or period?" matters. If they are still alive, tell us what they are doing. And the next verse says the same - that major reading problem you have is in evidence. But it seems to be a reading problem exacerbated by reading any scripture.

Hey...you ain’t respecting his prowess...


LOL

 

[clefty]

The dead it seems have no emotions, no love, hate or envy (whereas the "Samuel" we see speaking to Saul was positively grouchy.

And they are now out of all the action taking place on earth - all the squabbles over who inherits their stuff etc. Sounds exactly like a person asleep to me - no emotions, no involvement with earthly matters.

Yet here is "Samuel" being totally involved after his death in the earthly matters of Saul. So thanks for pointing out this verse which too PROVES that the real Samuel was not the one involved with earthly matters, it was the familiar spirit posing as him.

But when one has such utter disconnect between the words on the page of a Bible, and those same words inside Lon's brain - I am expecting no apology from Lon for totally misrepresenting verse 6 too.

Samuel was grouchy cuz he realized he was gonna get a stern talking to by Abraham for disproving his teaching and policy that nobody believes anyone risen from the dead...oh that and the hoody he was wearing to go up top (a phrase used in bosomville for visiting the living topside) was too big and covering his eyes...lol

 

[iouae]

Hey...you ain’t respecting his prowess...


LOL

Clefty, I am giving his "prowess" all the respect it deserves

 

[iouae]

Samuel was grouchy cuz he realized he was gonna get a stern talking to by Abraham for disproving his teaching and policy that nobody believes anyone risen from the dead...oh that and the hoody he was wearing to go up top (a phrase used in bosomville for visiting the living topside) was too big and covering his eyes...lol

You are probably right. Good one that about Abraham.

Or "Samuel" was grouchy at being disturbed by ten other mediums earlier that day, and he expected to be retired for good.

 

[clefty]

You are probably right. Good one that about Abraham.

Or "Samuel" was grouchy at being disturbed by ten other mediums earlier that day, and he expected to be retired for good.

I know riiight? I mean think of the repercussions of having mediums actually able to conjure up anyone...anytime...lol

 

[iouae]

Ghost riders in the sky - aka the Lon ranger

An old cowboy went riding out one dark and windy day
Upon a ridge he rested as he went along his way
When all at once a mighty herd of red eyed cows he saw
A-plowing through the ragged sky and up the cloudy draw
Their brands were still on fire and their hooves were made of steel
Their horns were black and shiny and their hot breath he could feel
A bolt of fear went through him as they thundered through the sky
For he saw the riders coming hard and he heard their mournful cry
Yippie yi ooh
Yippie yi yay
Ghost riders in the sky
Their faces gaunt, their eyes were blurred, their shirts all soaked with sweat
He's riding hard to catch that herd, but he ain't caught 'em yet
'Cause they've got to ride forever on that range up in the sky
On horses snorting fire
As…

 

[iouae]

I know riiight? I mean think of the repercussions of having mediums actually able to conjure up anyone...anytime...lol

One heck of a reward for us to look forward to

 

[Lon]

not my fault yours keeps trying to insert hell into the life after death...stop doing that and it will return to resurrection after death and complete restoration to the way it was in Eden...no hell then...HAHAHA


you not giving a care would be better than your leading others astray with your caring about your own view and prowess handling scripture bad enough to poke your neighbor’s eye out...

So far? A lot of posturing and trying to just be mean, snarky, assertive, and condemning.

Me? Quickly going from losing interest to almost gone now. There is no point when all that anyone wants to do is fight without using scripture. Honoring the Lord rather than posturing would be a better tack. Sticking up for IOUAE wasn't/isn't necessary. He's a big boy and can take care of himself. AT LEAST you use scripture. I'd rather be just discussing verses, but we are into the spat, malice, and whatever doesn't count for anything stage in the discussion

seems...isnt accurate to me...lol again seeing how things seem to you is more amusing than edifying

And? You HAVE to address that instead of talking about the scriptures? :noway: I STILL have not condemned you. You've done that to me. You postured. I really don't care about posturing and thumping my chest and saying "NO! 'I' am the Lord's favorite!" Difference? I'm cocky and know the Lord needs to remind me that intelligence isn't everything. I'm not even using it to thump anybody, just saying 'up your game.'

to you...it doesnt seem...seriously how old are you pity such energy is wasted on narcissistic attention seeking...

How old are YOU? 3 fingers point right back, I've been wondering your age watching you talk to others in thread. You and IOUAE remind me of cocky high school or college students with a lot of angst, but not much knowledge nor the temperance that comes with years of walking humbly with the Lord.

you Lon...posters like you amuse me as stated earlier

Simple minds, easily amused? Why am I even responding to this? There is nothing here that is on topic. Nothing but you wanting to posture yourself. What is the point? You two enjoy this? You both started this schoolyard bullying junk. I was talking about scriptures and whether we are unconscious when we die. I DIDN'T posture 'idolatry' or breaking ten commandments, condemnation, etc. etc. when someone disagreed with me. That was you and IOUAE. How old are you again? How does THAT equate good debate and carefully handling God's Word? :dizzy:
You two have some growing up to do, no matter how old you both are.

Him His Way > man’s tradition is trolling? Holy trolling maybe...HAHAHA inflammatory...you are the one going on about hell and stuff...

it seems to you...lol

▲reread▲ How old are you again? It looks like the writing of a middle school child. "Hahaha....you are the one....LOL" :noway:

I suppose, if I were a little more mature, I'd simply have ignored this post. It has nothing to do with anything other than me telling you, your debate tactics aren't laudable. I'm not really interested in any of it. I 'was' interested in the topic before you two became abusive and belligerent with anybody who 'dares' disagree with you over something that isn't a core doctrine, condemning anyone that 'dares' disagree with either of you :noway: Posture much?

 

[iouae]

Num 22:5
He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: behold, they cover the face of the earth, and they abide over against me:
Num 22:7
And the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian departed with the rewards of divination in their hand; and they came unto Balaam, and spake unto him the words of Balak.
Num 22:8
And he said unto them, Lodge here this night, and I will bring you word again, as the LORD shall speak unto me: and the princes of Moab abode with Balaam.
Num 22:9
And God came unto Balaam, and said, What men are these with thee?
Num 22:10
And Balaam said unto God, Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab, hath sent unto me, saying,
Num 22:12
And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed.

Num 24:2
And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.
Num 24:3
And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said:...

Num 24:10
And Balak's anger was kindled against Balaam, and he smote his hands together: and Balak said unto Balaam, I called thee to curse mine enemies, and, behold, thou hast altogether blessed them these three times.

Jos 13:22
Balaam also the son of Beor, the soothsayer, did the children of Israel slay with the sword among them that were slain by them

Balaam was a diviner, a soothsayer, a wicked person with a wicked spirit, whom kings obviously used to consult with, and get him to curse their enemies. This was a "powerful" person, as was Simon Magus.

And God used him. Humans may not go to a diviner or soothsayer or someone in contact with demons, because they are too dumb to know what is true or false, and the limits of demonic power. But God has none of these problems.

At one point, the spirit of God comes on this evil man, and he prophesies good about Israel.

God eventually kills Baalam for giving advice as to how to get Israel cursed. His advice was to let Israel marry pagan woman, and these women will turn Israel to other gods, which will cause God to curse Israel.

Likewise, God could even have the spirit of God prophesy through the witch at Endor. We have a precedent of this with Balaam. And God could tell Saul his fortune through the witch of Endor saying what God wants her to say, just as Baalam did.

 

[iouae]

I'm cocky and know the Lord needs to remind me that intelligence isn't everything.

That's hilarious.

Lon, you barge onto this thread and start judging everyone. So Mat 7:1 comes into effect against you. Judge not, that ye be not judged.

If you would calm down, stop analysing our supposed attitudes, and actually reply to questions asking you to explain scripture, then you may discover the friendly face that is presented to those who show themselves friendly. (Pr 18:24)

I personally am quite happy to start again and try to have a friendly discourse with you, if you are prepared to play nice.