Hey everyone, I'm Dan.

[El DLo]

What do you mean by "As you can see,..." See what? You have shown nothing to indicate that your beliefs are rooted in science and reasoning. In fact, you have shown just the opposite. To be an atheist one must reject reasoning altogether.

That is the closed-minded religious response that I was mentioning. My entire life is based around reasoning. An example would be if two people were holding a baseball, but one was hiding it so I couldn't see it. I'd be more inclined to believe what I can clearly see, and that is that the first guy is very obviously showing me what's there.

What if it was my belief that a black person is only three-fifths of a white person? Would you respect that belief?

People are entitled to their own beliefs. If you were the kind of person who was interested in harming African Americans, then I would not respect that as it endangers another person. There's quite a difference between thought and action. A pedophile may be sexually attracted to children, but explicitly avoid trying to act upon those attractions. Being a pedophile doesn't make someone a child molester. I'm not going to question who they are so long as it isn't endangering another person.

Do you believe that it is absolutely wrong to rape and murder a 12 year old girl? If so, how did you come to that conclusion?

Yes, I do. Being an atheist doesn't mean that you lack basic moral principles. I lead a more moral life than almost any of the religious people that I know. My morals are based on my experiences and my perception. And those morals tell me that inflicting harm on another human intentionally is wrong.

Could you define what you mean by "religion"?

By religion I mean any sort of fundamental guidelines by which to live a life that have been laid out by a structured and specific source. Religion does not have to have a god, it just has to structure how someone lives their life. I may share morals with religion, but I came to my personal morals without the conscious desire to follow a preset guideline.

Sweet. Welcome aboard.

Thanks for the welcome =D

 

[chatmaggot]

This is as big an ipse dixit as what you're pointing a finger at, pot.

Are ipse dixit any relation to pixie and dixie?

My point was to illustrate the absurdity in his statement. Claiming that atheists are grounded in reason suggests those that aren't atheists are grounded in foolishness.

 

[Spitfire]

I have a little experience with the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imngbn8Srbw

Pretty good! I would have had a lot of trouble with all those hammer ons about two minutes in too. Until I'd played through it a few hundred times, anyway. Which would take a while. That song goes on and on forever... :squint:

 

[El DLo]

My point was to illustrate the absurdity in his statement. Claiming that atheists are grounded in reason suggests those that aren't atheists are grounded in foolishness.

I wasn't trying to insinuate any such thing. There are plenty of religious people who base much of their lives on reasoning. The only difference is that I base my entire life on reasoning whereas a religion person lets faith play part of the role in their beliefs.




And to Spitfire: Thanks, it is indeed one long song. =P

 

[lucy]

A little back story on how I arrived at Atheism (as someone is bound to ask me); I started life in a Jewish family. My family was semi-conservative, not excessively, but with some regard to the practices. We kept Kosher in the house, separated our dishware to correspond with the Kosher ideal, went to temple on the high holidays, and enrolled me in Hebrew school. Throughout the entire venture I never entirely bought into the whole religion thing, and when I became old enough to understand what it was that I was reading, I just couldn't find myself a reason to believe what I was reading as truth, and as I delved into the realm of science and reasoning, I found that taking a literal and objective stance on life and the universe was something that appealed to my nature much more than religion could.



-Dan (El DLo)

Hi and welcome! I am a newcomer to TOL too, glad to have your input. Science and Christianity/Religion are not necessarily at odds. You don't have to put your intellect on the "back burner" in order to have faith a creative being. There are a lot of college professors out there with an "agenda" of their own. Don't believe everything you hear about evolution, etc. Ever read "Darwin's Black Box"? Great book that takes a biochemical look at evolution and the probability of everything happening by "chance" and the probability of biochemical systems and design.

 

[El DLo]

Hey Lucy, welcome to you as well. I'm always glad to see a Christian who looks at the big picture.

 

[allsmiles]

Are ipse dixit any relation to pixie and dixie?

My point was to illustrate the absurdity in his statement. Claiming that atheists are grounded in reason suggests those that aren't atheists are grounded in foolishness.

I don't see anything wrong with that assertion, the god theory self-destructs immediately: you can't say on one hand that vast complexity is impossible without a creator and then posit a creator that is vastly more complex yet has no creator. What is impossible on one hand is possible on the other hand, yet only to an immeasurably greater degree. It would be foolish to use such a theory as a foundation.

 

[bybee]

Hello Daniel

Hello Daniel

So last night I stumbled upon this forum (to be honest I don't actually recall how as it was far later than I should have been awake). Well at first I was skeptical, thinking that it would be another message board full of closed-minded individuals that bash everything that they don't represent. To my surprise I discovered that this site is full of people of every religion and denomination of every religion. I never thought that in a place called "Theology Forum" I would find a place where I could freely post as an Atheist and not be automatically ridiculed for my beliefs.

That said, as my topic suggests, my name is Dan. I'm a tad younger than most people on this site are from what I can tell (I'm a freshman in college), but don't take that to mean that I'm ignorant to what I'm talking about. As you can see, my beliefs are rooted in science and reasoning as I am an Atheist. There are many Atheists out there who are blatantly ignorant and who take a stance of sheer superiority and closed-minded arrogance to the thoughts and beliefs of any other people. I am not one of those Atheists.

I make it an integral part of life to understand the beliefs and practices of other cultures. I come here, not as a rambunctious teenager who is dead-set on converting every last person to an Atheist, but as an educated young man who understands and respects the beliefs of all other people on here.

In a similar vein of understanding, I do not expect to have people attempt to convert me. I understand that beliefs are something that people hold dear, but I know, and everyone should know as well that religious beliefs in any form are something that a person has to find for themselves. Generally speaking, I have heard, read, and understand many of the ideals of several religions that people hold to be absolute truth, and they just don't do it to me.

A little back story on how I arrived at Atheism (as someone is bound to ask me); I started life in a Jewish family. My family was semi-conservative, not excessively, but with some regard to the practices. We kept Kosher in the house, separated our dishware to correspond with the Kosher ideal, went to temple on the high holidays, and enrolled me in Hebrew school. Throughout the entire venture I never entirely bought into the whole religion thing, and when I became old enough to understand what it was that I was reading, I just couldn't find myself a reason to believe what I was reading as truth, and as I delved into the realm of science and reasoning, I found that taking a literal and objective stance on life and the universe was something that appealed to my nature much more than religion could.

Besides that, I'm a musician with a passion for 70s rock, a fanatic of ancient history, and an avid enthusiast of technology. I'm here to find good discussion, not make enemies, so feel free to ask me whatever you please about my beliefs or my upbringing, and you can expect to see me around here more often.

-Dan (El DLo)

I hope there isn't an"iab" in the midst of the parenthetical words? The thing about atheists young fellow is this, we have a plethora of them on this web site. And compared to believers, they are rather dull. But, welcome! bybee

 

[The Berean]

Howdy.
So, where are you at on;
Abortion
Age of the Earth
Assination of JFK
Moon landings
9/11
H1N1
Bigfoot
Aliens
Birth Certificates
Miricles
Ghosts
Demons
Hula hoops
Microwave ovens
?

You forgot homos and the Obamessiah...:banana:

Welcome to TOL, Dan. :e4e:

 

[The Berean]

People are entitled to their own beliefs. If you were the kind of person who was interested in harming African Americans, then I would not respect that as it endangers another person. There's quite a difference between thought and action. A pedophile may be sexually attracted to children, but explicitly avoid trying to act upon those attractions. Being a pedophile doesn't make someone a child molester. I'm not going to question who they are so long as it isn't endangering another person.

:doh:

Yes, I do. Being an atheist doesn't mean that you lack basic moral principles. I lead a more moral life than almost any of the religious people that I know. My morals are based on my experiences and my perception. And those morals tell me that inflicting harm on another human intentionally is wrong.

You are quite the humble person aren't you? :think:

 

[El DLo]

You forgot homos and the Obamessiah...

First off, people use the term "homos" far too liberally on this site. The term is homosexual. "Homos" is intentionally derogatory.

That said, people are people. America was founded as a secular country, not one of a national religion, so to force religious ideals on the people is unconstitutional. As a heterosexual male that happens to be atheist, no one's gonna say anything if I choose to be legally married in a court of law. If I am entitled to a non-religious marriage, then under what justification should homosexuals be denied the same right?

As for Obama, I am a supporter. I personally support his socialist policies, because they work in other countries. Look at countries like France and Canada who have Democracy with integrated socialism. It works fantastically there, and it can in America too. Obama is cleaning up the mess that Bush left behind. Maybe he hasn't achieved everything he promised just yet, but things take time, and I'm confident that they will work out.

 

[chatmaggot]

Do you believe that it is absolutely wrong to rape and murder a 12 year old girl? If so, how did you come to that conclusion?

Yes, I do...My morals are based on my experiences and my perception. And those morals tell me that inflicting harm on another human intentionally is wrong.

Would you say that not inflicting harm on another human intentionally is some sort of fundamental guideline by which you live (the source being your experiences and perception)?

I came to my personal morals without the conscious desire to follow a preset guideline.

Could your experiences and perception possibly misguide you?

 

[chatmaggot]

The term is homosexual. "Homos" is intentionally derogatory.

Says who?

Aren't you the one who said:

I come here,...as an educated young man who understands and respects the beliefs of all other people on here.

Why don't you respect the belief of the person that believes it is not derogatory to use the term "Homos"?

 

[allsmiles]

You are quite the humble person aren't you? :think:

It is what it is. Seeing as how we can't verify his claim we might as well give him the benefit of the doubt. Some times humility can be inappropriate when a realistic appraisal of the facts will do instead.

 

[El DLo]

To Berean,

A child molester is someone who sexually abuses children. A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to children. Many pedophiles manage to resist the urges and would never lay a hand on a child in an inappropriate manner. Saying that all pedophiles are child molesters is like saying that all gun-owners are murderers.

-----------------------------------
To Chatmaggot:

Would you say that not inflicting harm on another human intentionally is some sort of fundamental guideline by which you live (the source being your experiences and perception)?

Yes, but there's nothing called "The Bible as it pertains to Dan". A religion in my mind is something that hands people their opinions to them without allowing them the mind to come to conclusions about life on their own.

Could your experiences and perception possibly misguide you?

They absolutely can. That's why the world has murderers and drug addicts. But there's a thing called self-control and values. Anyone who is mentally stable can arrive at the same morals without the need of a bible to do so for them (to a certain extent).

 

[The Berean]

It is what it is. Seeing as how we can't verify his claim we might as well give him the benefit of the doubt. Some times humility can be inappropriate when a realistic appraisal of the facts will do instead.

Since we cannot verify his claim I assume nothing. I just think it's humorous because I've heard that claim from several atheists before. "I'm an atheist I am am more moral than you silly Christians." :crackup:

 

[El DLo]

Why don't you respect the belief of the person that believes it is not derogatory to use the term "Homos"?

Because the term "homo" to refer to a homosexual is notably derogatory in modern culture. You may think it's fine to refer to African Americans as the "N word", but political culture shows that in our society it is not.

------------------------------

Since we cannot verify his claim I assume nothing. I just think it's humorous because I've heard that claim from several atheists before. "I'm an atheist I am am more moral than you silly Christians."

That's not what I'm saying though. I said that I know I have stronger morals than some religious people that I know. I never tried to insinuate that because I am atheist that my morals are stronger or more valuable than religious people. I speak only of people that I know.

 

[bybee]

Oh yes

Oh yes

First off, people use the term "homos" far too liberally on this site. The term is homosexual. "Homos" is intentionally derogatory.

That said, people are people. America was founded as a secular country, not one of a national religion, so to force religious ideals on the people is unconstitutional. As a heterosexual male that happens to be atheist, no one's gonna say anything if I choose to be legally married in a court of law. If I am entitled to a non-religious marriage, then under what justification should homosexuals be denied the same right?

As for Obama, I am a supporter. I personally support his socialist policies, because they work in other countries. Look at countries like France and Canada who have Democracy with integrated socialism. It works fantastically there, and it can in America too. Obama is cleaning up the mess that Bush left behind. Maybe he hasn't achieved everything he promised just yet, but things take time, and I'm confident that they will work out.

When the middle class is destroyed President Obama will still be a millionaire living in a million plus mansion in an exclusive neighborhood in Chicago. This poor boy has a Harvard education and is a world traveler of some renown. He is conversant with several religions and is held in high repute in Illinois political circles. Socialism is available to you already, ELSEWHERE! He hasn't achieved any of the golden promises of the campaign trail. You are a young fool! bybee

 

[chatmaggot]

They absolutely can. That's why the world has murderers and drug addicts. But there's a thing called self-control and values.

Why should someone adhere to your definition of "self-control"?

Where can I find these "values" you speak of?

 

[allsmiles]

Since we cannot verify his claim I assume nothing. I just think it's humorous because I've heard that claim from several atheists before. "I'm an atheist I am am more moral than you silly Christians." :crackup:

It's quite possible that he is. Christians are no more or less upright in their dealings than atheists are.