Hell

[JudgeRightly]

Maybe I can get a straight answer this time:
[MENTION=10403]Arthur Brain[/MENTION], Is it loving to those who love God for God to force them to live with those who reject Him?

OR

Is God "a pompous, self righteous, judgemental and ignorant jerk" who should allow everyone into heaven regardless of what choices they made while here on this earth?

 

[Caino]

It's torment, Torture implies a torturer. One can be tormented and not have someone tormenting them.



To the extent that their hatred for God increases, yes.







Who says there's someone to turn the dial in the first place?



There's no such thing as magic.



The unrepentant sinner's rejection of God.



:think:

https://youtu.be/sl9pTDK8PAk



Not torture...

Torment.



I did. Your implied accusation was a straw man.



Allow me to clarify:

Creatures designed to be eternal cannot be destroyed, because to do so would require an infinite amount of effort, over an eternity.

Both angels and man were designed to be eternal creatures (even with rejuvenation from the Tree of Life).



God Himself cannot destroy that which He created to last forever.

Therefore your question is misleading.

You still didn't answer the question for obvious reasons. Just wanted to see if you had the courage to defend such a poor doctrine.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You still didn't answer the question for obvious reasons. Just wanted to see if you had the courage to defend such a poor doctrine.

You seem to think that my position is something other than what it is.

You are challenging me on something I don't believe.

Therefore I cannot answer the question the way you want me to.

I answered your question by correcting your assumption about what I believe.

If you can't accept that, then go away.

 

[clefty]

No, only if they reject Him.

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them )in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. - Romans 2:12-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans2:12-16&version=NKJV

But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. - Luke 12:48 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke12:48&version=NKJV



:allsmile:

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. - 1 Corinthians 1:18-25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians1:18-25&version=NKJV

And for you perish is being constantly in a tormented state...never ending...you know like a plant perish and rotted and NO MORE...yet useful

and as is perishing...a continued process...never fully completed...

So is us who are being saved...is that ever completed or on going for eternity...

How about when He destroys the wisdom of the wise...is that a final act or maybe He toys with it forever too...never fully destroying it...

So rejecting Him once or how many times...and then again through eternity...hmmm yes makes sense all that rejecting building and building and building and building...for EVER...

Everything else He created has such efficiency and order and is not confusing but well...it’s their own fault right

 

[Arthur Brain]

Maybe I can get a straight answer this time:
[MENTION=10403]Arthur Brain[/MENTION], Is it loving to those who love God for God to force them to live with those who reject Him?

OR

Is God "a pompous, self righteous, judgemental and ignorant jerk" who should allow everyone into heaven regardless of what choices they made while here on this earth?

If you truly knew what love was and had some about you, you wouldn't even be asking such a question. That's your answer. Go think about that if you can.

 

[Arthur Brain]

:allsmile:

Me: I just want a straight answer.

Arthur: :argue:

:rain:

Seriously, grow up kid.

 

[JudgeRightly]

And for you perish is being tormented...and as is perishing...a continued process...never fully completed...

So is us who are being saved...is that ever completed or on going for eternity...

:think:

"Sealed (past tense) by the Holy Spirit"

How about when He destroys the wisdom of the wise...is that a final act or maybe He toys with it forever too...never fully destroying it...

No idea what you're talking about.

So rejecting Him once or how many times...

Once is enough.

and then again through eternity...

The point of no return is when a person dies a physical death (or if they somehow manage to live until judgment day, when they accept the mark of the Beast).

hmmm yes makes sense all that rejecting building and building and building and building...for EVER...

See above.

Everything else He created has such efficiency and order and is not confusing but well...it’s their own fault right

No idea what you're talking about.

Man and angels are the only beings who were created to exist for eternity.

Everything else will pass away.

 

[clefty]

:blabla:

Typical Arthur Brain.

When you quote scripture to him in defence of your beliefs, he tries to turn it around with insults.

Point in case:



All I see is name calling.

Could you clarify?

Is it loving to those who love God to force them to live with those who reject God?

Those that reject Him PERISH...there is no living with...

Besides those that love Yah are actually flesh and blood humans NOT IMMORTAL but still dependent on the tree of life...those that are in Hell are what spirits? Or flesh and blood? Able to live forever HOW?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Not sure why I expected anything else.

Maybe I'm too loving...

:mock:

If you truly knew what love was and had some about you, you wouldn't even be asking such a question. That's your answer. Go think about that if you can.

Seriously, grow up kid.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Not sure why I expected anything else.

Maybe I'm too loving...

:mock:

Loving is exactly what you aren't and add immature to that to boot. If you were truly loving towards your fellow man then you would hope that everyone would be with you in "Heaven", not selfishly going on about how such might be "ruined" if "non believers" and the like were to dwell there too.

You got that now? There's many an atheist who has more love than you've displayed on here.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Please use more punctuation. I'm having a hard time understanding you.

Those that reject Him PERISH...there is no living with...

Considering you're responding to something that wasn't asked to you... :think:

Besides those that love Yah are actually flesh and blood humans

And?

NOT IMMORTAL

Begging the question.

God's intent since before the creation of the universe was that man would live forever with Him. Therefore, man had to be made to last forever (even if it takes rejuvenation via the Tree of Life to counteract entropy).

but still dependent on the tree of life...

See above.

those that are in Hell are what spirits? Or flesh and blood?

Body, soul, and spirit

Able to live forever HOW?

Because God created man that way.

 

[clefty]

It's torment, Torture implies a torturer. One can be tormented and not have someone tormenting them.

torment...so why the need for flames and immortal worms and stuff

To the extent that their hatred for God increases, yes.

increases or as in life they just dont care anymore...that was why Laodacian church was spit out for being lukewarm not really caring and NOT for INCREASING HATRED AND REJECTING

Who says there's someone to turn the dial in the first place?

Ok so well why the flames and how do they keep burning...consuming what fuel?

There's no such thing as magic.

so Yah must keep this going with His will

The unrepentant sinner's rejection of God.

fuels flames?

:think:

https://youtu.be/sl9pTDK8PAk

thanks...?

Allow me to clarify:

Creatures designed to be eternal cannot be destroyed, because to do so would require an infinite amount of effort, over an eternity.

LOL...exactly why residents eternally in hell is laughable...

Creatures designed to be eternal can INDEED be destroyed...FEAR THE ONE THAT CAN DO SO duh

Both angels and man were designed to be eternal creatures (even with rejuvenation from the Tree of Life).

and those in hell have access to the tree of life?

See creatures designed to be eternal CAN INDEED be destroyed...just ban access to the tree of life...and they die...

God Himself cannot destroy that which He created to last forever.

Therefore your question is misleading.

Oh boy...WHAT?

It just gets more confusion...and THAT IS NOT what He authors...

 

[Arthur Brain]

"Ignorant jerk" isn't an insult?

Not when it fits. Your asinine ignorance and judgemental attitude towards homeless people underlined that.

I do. It's why I'm asking YOU!

No, you don't, otherwise you would have compassion about you. You don't. Pompous judgement in spades but compassion, empathy? Nope.

I ask because I understand what love is, Arthur.

If I don't, then answer my question, and show how my question is in error.

No, otherwise you wouldn't be asking such a self serving question to begin with. You wouldn't be focussed on how your own little piece of "paradise" could be ruined by other fallible people, just like you.

IIRC, I was being facetious, which showed that you have no sense of humor at all.

Oh no, you meant that silly little soundbite, don't get all coy because you were called in it. You had ample chance to address that gaffe and you couldn't.

I'M self-serving?

Apparently you think that being concerned for a person's eternal soul and not wanting them to burn in hell for eternity is self-serving. :think:

Oh, you're concerned alright, that a "heathen" might destroy your paradise...:shocked:

You don't care at all otherwise you might get around to questioning the crap you so glibly lap up.

Note that I wouldn't wish the likes on you that you would for others.

 

[clefty]

Please use more punctuation. I'm having a hard time understanding you.

right...the punctuation makes it hard to understand that Luke wrote Stephen went to sleep and NOT to Abraham’s bosom...or heaven but fell ASLEEP...

Considering you're responding to something that wasn't asked to you... :think:

just that those that love Him are over in one area around the tree of life...and those that reject Him are GONE PERISHED no living together no living with...

And?

and what are those resident in hell?

Begging the question.

God's intent since before the creation of the universe was that man would live forever with Him. Therefore, man had to be made to last forever (even if it takes rejuvenation via the Tree of Life to counteract entropy).

lasting forever EXACTLY depending on the tree of LIFE...if NOT BEING KICKED OUT OF THE GARDEN MEANT THEY WOULD LIVE FOREVER ANYWAY...

See above.



Body, soul, and spirit



Because God created man that way.

NO MAN was NEVER IMMORTAL nor will be ONLY ONE IS IMMORTAL and in order to live forever necessitated access to the tree of life if NOT then being kicked out of the garden would be no big deal...

Yet a charibum with a “LAZER RAYGUN LIGHT SABER” guarded the way to the tree of LIFE...pretty specific yes?


And cuz if they had access to the tree of life then they could rebel for ever too...

 

[JudgeRightly]

Loving is exactly what you aren't and add immature to that to boot. If you were truly loving towards your fellow man then you would hope that everyone would be with you in "Heaven",

My hopes are tempered by reality, which you seem to reject.

I would LOVE IT if all came to be in a relationship with their creator.

But God says that the majority are wicked, and are on their way to destruction.

not selfishly going on about

Again I ask, is it selfish and unloving to preach to those who are on their way to hell that they are on their way to hell?

how such might be "ruined" if "non believers" and the like were to dwell there too.

Considering you won't answer my question with a straight answer on this subject, I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion.

Maybe you could answer it with a straight answer, and not try to be a smart alec about it:

Would it be loving for God to force those who love Him to live with those who rejected Him while on earth?

You got that now? There's many an atheist who has more love than you've displayed on here.

:blabla:

-----------------

God does not want anyone to perish.

And yet, He recognizes that most will.

You would call God unloving because He will not allow someone who rejects Him to be in His presence for all eternity. This is what Scripture says.

If there had been any other way for God to save those who reject Him, He would have taken that route, instead of sending His only Son to die for them.

I do not want anyone to perish.

Yet, I recognize that God says that most will.

You call me unloving because I teach that God will not allow someone who rejects Him to be in His presence for all eternity. I'm simply trying to explain to you what Scripture says.

If Scripture had said that there was any other way, then it would have said that God took that option, rather than sending Christ to die on the Cross.

----

Arthur, if I were unloving, I wouldn't give two shakes of a dead cat what people believed.

As it were, though, I am "truly loving", because I teach what Scripture says, the truth.

Rejecting Scripture because you think it's unfair and unloving for God to send away those who reject Him is not a good position to take.

It's because I care about you and those who reject God that I am trying to correct your beliefs.

 

[clefty]

Body, soul, and spirit



Because God created man that way.

So even the evil have body soul and spirit? Well they are rewarded then? transformed in a twinkling of the eye too?...but the fires don’t burn the flesh or is the flesh replenished? After being consumed?

So back to the rich man...one drop of water REALLY provides relief on his tongue?

Do flames not make a noise, people tormented with real fire on real flesh dont scream and shout...but somehow this rich man can hear above the roar of the fire and screams of tormented as Abraham he sees a distance FAR OFF merely speaks to him...not even shouts or what...

Oh and HOW MANY CAN FIT ON ABRAHAMS BOSOM? Do they time share line up or how does that work as a physical reality...

 

[Arthur Brain]

My hopes are tempered by reality, which you seem to reject.

I would LOVE IT if all came to be in a relationship with their creator.

But God says that the majority are wicked, and are on their way to destruction.

The reality is that you're a fundamentalist who can't at this moment think for himself.

Again I ask, is it selfish and unloving to preach to those who are on their way to hell that they are on their way to hell?

What "hell" would that be? Your doctrinal one of eternal suffering? Turn or Burn?

Considering you won't answer my question with a straight answer on this subject, I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion.

Maybe you could answer it with a straight answer, and not try to be a smart alec about it:

Would it be loving for God to force those who love Him to live with those who rejected Him while on earth?

A loving person would want those estranged to come back into the fold, even if that took time. They certainly wouldn't want people to be locked out forever.

:blabla:

You should really stop doing that...

-----------------

God does not want anyone to perish.

And yet, He recognizes that most will.

You would call God unloving because He will not allow someone who rejects Him to be in His presence for all eternity. This is what Scripture says.

If there had been any other way for God to save those who reject Him, He would have taken that route, instead of sending His only Son to die for them.

I do not want anyone to perish.

Yet, I recognize that God says that most will.

You call me unloving because I teach that God will not allow someone who rejects Him to be in His presence for all eternity. I'm simply trying to explain to you what Scripture says.

If Scripture had said that there was any other way, then it would have said that God took that option, rather than sending Christ to die on the Cross.

----

Arthur, if I were unloving, I wouldn't give two shakes of a dead cat what people believed.

As it were, though, I am "truly loving", because I teach what Scripture says, the truth.

Rejecting Scripture because you think it's unfair and unloving for God to send away those who reject Him is not a good position to take.

It's because I care about you and those who reject God that I am trying to correct your beliefs.

No, I call you unloving because you care more about your own place in "heaven" being "ruined" by those who would apparently usurp it if let in. You trying to "correct" anyone's beliefs is like an architect trying to lecture an astrophysicist on quantum mechanics. You're just an unthinking fundamentalist, bound to doctrine and a clanging cymbal.

Hopefully that'll change with some more years on the clock.

 

[clefty]

Maybe I can get a straight answer this time:
[MENTION=10403]Arthur Brain[/MENTION], Is it loving to those who love God for God to force them to live with those who reject Him?

OR

Is God "a pompous, self righteous, judgemental and ignorant jerk" who should allow everyone into heaven regardless of what choices they made while here on this earth?

What is this?

 

[woodeneye]

So in the Hell cult, God will eventually destroy the Satan that mislead the world...….but continually keep alive his kids for torture forever?


I could see Jesus asking, "errrm, Dad, this really isn't making any sense"????

So, certain Supposed Bible readings don't make sense to you either? I say this because I went through the same thing. If the scriptures say something that doesn't seem to make sense, further research is required to find out why. Too many people believe what's been drummed into them, so they ignore what makes sense to hold on to what doesn't.

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk

 

[clefty]

My hopes are tempered by reality, which you seem to reject.

I would LOVE IT if all came to be in a relationship with their creator.

But God says that the majority are wicked, and are on their way to destruction.



Again I ask, is it selfish and unloving to preach to those who are on their way to hell that they are on their way to hell?



Considering you won't answer my question with a straight answer on this subject, I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion.

Maybe you could answer it with a straight answer, and not try to be a smart alec about it:

Would it be loving for God to force those who love Him to live with those who rejected Him while on earth?



:blabla:

-----------------

God does not want anyone to perish.

And yet, He recognizes that most will.

You would call God unloving because He will not allow someone who rejects Him to be in His presence for all eternity. This is what Scripture says.

If there had been any other way for God to save those who reject Him, He would have taken that route, instead of sending His only Son to die for them.

I do not want anyone to perish.

Yet, I recognize that God says that most will.

You call me unloving because I teach that God will not allow someone who rejects Him to be in His presence for all eternity. I'm simply trying to explain to you what Scripture says.

If Scripture had said that there was any other way, then it would have said that God took that option, rather than sending Christ to die on the Cross.

----

Arthur, if I were unloving, I wouldn't give two shakes of a dead cat what people believed.

As it were, though, I am "truly loving", because I teach what Scripture says, the truth.

Rejecting Scripture because you think it's unfair and unloving for God to send away those who reject Him is not a good position to take.

It's because I care about you and those who reject God that I am trying to correct your beliefs.

You dont believe anyone will perish but will continue to exist walk about see others walk about some more...maybe sit... or lay down or whatever...but they are alive...do they eat anything? oh tormented yes sure but...

I guess Yah needs them to be a freak show to keep it real right? Every 10000000000000000000000000000 years or so they will be observed as a reminder as why things are the way they are...aint love grand?