Heaven

patrick jane

patrick jane

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jamie said:
How so? Why do you think God has kept him around?

If a person wants to increase physical strength they use weights to overcome gravity.

If a person wants to develop spiritual strength they use God's Spirit to overcome Satan's influence.
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satan is not helping us, you even capitalize his name. Out of respect and admiration ?
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
What is Satan's role?

Examine pre-fall Eden. Adam and Eve (A&E) are living happily. They are not really tempted by the Tree of Knowledge, because life is good. They are like us today, Laodicean. We are rich and increased with goods, and in need of nothing. We are nominal Christians. A&E were nominal God followers.

But being nominal God-followers is not good enough for God, who calls Himself a "jealous God". So God makes available to mankind, Satan and his demon spirits, which pagan societies worship, to this day. All pagan religions worship demon spirits. God gave mankind free will, and an option of gods to worship.

So all of us do well when there is no pressure. A&E were lukewarm before the fall. We see this when God DELIBERATELY releases Satan into Eden to tempt A&E who were doing fine till this point. And they succumb to temptation. And they show no remorse or repentance. And they show little to no desire to be reconciled to God. Like I said, the temptation only exposed their already semi-fallen state of lukewarmness. A&E were more into themselves than into God, which a jealous God will not accept.

Today, like the pre-fall, the world is full of nominal Christians. God will unleash the Man of Sin onto the end-time world, complete with signs and great miracles, to tempt nominal Christians to accept the Anti-Christ's mark of the Beast.

Likewise after the Millennium (during which Satan is locked in the abyss) Satan will be released back into the earth to stir up all nominal God-followers to join Satan and Gog in fighting the cities now ruled by Christ.

The pattern is always the same. Satan is there to tempt mankind away from God, especially where God-followers are nominal and sitting on the fence.

When all mankind has made a choice one way or the other, Satan and his demons will be cast into the lake of fire and destroyed. They have no further use.
 
MichaelCadry

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER

Dear iouae,

You're about half-right, just as jamie is. I know the truth, but I'll leave it up to you for yourselves, because you would not believe me anyway. Now, I have to tell you both that the Lord God has 'unleashed' the 'beast' or 'Antichrist,' already for years now. So you are way behind on your expectations. The Antichrist has had plenty of time to try to steal you all away from God, and it has gone on and still is actually happening.

God Bless You Both!!

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :guitar: :singer:
​
 
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Jamie Gigliotti

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
KingdomRose said:
Would there be any sense to the "soul" coming back from heaven to reunite with the body? How would you explain that? Jesus didn't say that the thief would be in paradise "today." There is no punctuation in Greek, so the placing of the comma is quite important. It just might be the case that it should be AFTER "today." That changes everything. It makes no sense that Jesus would tell the thief that they would be in paradise that day, because Jesus would be DEAD for three days. He didn't go anywhere until after that 3 days, and then he was resurrected. Then he stayed on Earth for 40 more days. It seems that the thief would be with Jesus in paradise on Earth when Jesus "came into his Kingdom." Of course Jesus would be in Heaven, but would be "with" the thief just as he is with us today (Matthew 28:20).

Scripture in no way says that a person goes to heaven or hell! If what I have said doesn't make sense, then would you explain why you don't agree? Where does Jamie get the idea that our souls keep living on? Ezekiel 18:4 and Matthew 10:28 show us plainly that the soul can die and WILL die---really be dead---when we draw our last breath.

Don't you think that the demons can fool people? They can make someone believe that they had died and then came back. This has more to do with the medication the person was taking than what happened when he "died." When we die, we're really dead.
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"The poor man died and was carried by angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades being in torment he lifted up his eyes and saw. Abraham far off and Lazurus by his side" Luke 16:22-23

The rich man then pleaded for Lazurus to be sent back to warn his family. Thier bodies were not resurected. Their spirits did not cease to exist. They went to one of two locations. Awaiting the final resurrection and the creation of the New Heaven and Earth.

This truth that Jesus taught is exactly what people have experienced.

Jesus suffered a horrendous painful, blood pouring bodily death. It is all that is needed to forgive our sins. His Spirit did not have to cease to exist to pay for sins. His blood needed shed.

Our Spirits are eternal. The question is, where will they be.

Somebody said, what if my family sees what I do?
God sees it all... The Father of some of us... Let's make Him proud, Glorify Him!
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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jamie said:
How so? Why do you think God has kept him around?

If a person wants to increase physical strength they use weights to overcome gravity.

If a person wants to develop spiritual strength they use God's Spirit to overcome Satan's influence.
Click to expand...

So, we needed satan to become saved ?
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
patrick jane said:
So, we needed satan to become saved ?
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Salvation is by grace through faith, Satan just helps us develop spiritual strength.

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. (Ephesians 6:10 NKJV)​
 
jamie

jamie

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patrick jane said:
I'm curious as to how folks imagine heaven and eternity with Christ
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Well, not any responses so far.

If you are referring to the third heaven (God's realm) that is a spiritual dimension that envelops the earth.

To spend eternity with Christ we will be busy developing the kingdom of God.
 
Tambora

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
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steko said:
"ἔκστασις
ékstasis; gen. ekstáseōs, from exístēmi (G1839), to remove out of its place or state. A putting away, removal of anything out of a place.

(I) An ecstasy in which the mind is for a time carried, as it were, out of or beyond itself and lost. Great astonishment, amazement (Mark 5:42, Mark 16:8, Luke 5:26, Acts 3:10, Sept.: Gen 27:33, Deut 28:28, 2Ch 14:14, Eze 27:35).

(II) A trance, sacred ecstasy or rapture of the mind beyond itself when the use of the external senses are suspended and God reveals something in a peculiar manner (Acts 10:10; Acts 11:5; Acts 22:17 [cf. 2Co 12:2; Eze 1:1 {cf. Sept.: Gen 2:21}]).

(III) The Eng. word which would correspond to ékstasis is rapture, but not in its exact sense as the act of seizing and carrying away, which would literally correspond to harpagḗ (G724) and the verb harpázō (G726), to seize, take by force or catch away upward. Harpagḗ and the verb harpázō are used trans., while ékstasis and the verb exístēmi are used as a reaction of the mind to an external cause or an internal feeling. It is not being oneself but, as if it were, one standing outside himself.

(IV) In Class. Gr. ékstasis means frenzy. However, in the NT it rarely expresses this high degree of emotion, but may include distraction of mind caused by wonder and astonishment or exceptional joy and rapture. Among the results of the healing of the paralytic by Christ, Luke tells us that amazement (ékstasis) took hold on all (Luke 5:26). Mark, in describing the effects of the resurrection upon the minds of the women as they fled from the tomb, states that trembling and astonishment (ékstasis) had come upon them (Mark 16:8). In Mat 12:23; Mark 2:12; Mark 6:51 the verb exístēmi (G1839) in the mid. sense is used in reference to the effects upon the multitude conveyed by the bestowal of the gift of tongues (Acts 2:7, Acts 2:12), and of the preaching of Paul in the synagogues immediately after his conversion (Acts 9:21).

(V) At Pentecost, it was not those who spoke in languages other than their own as a result of the coming of the Holy Spirit upon them who were ecstatic, but those who heard them speak in languages which they knew were not native to them (see Acts 2:7). The ones who spoke did not speak in what would be termed "the unknown tongue" of the Corinthians. In Acts 2:8 it is not the word tongue (glṓssa [G1100]), that is used, but diálektos (G1258), dialect or language. This was not an unknown tongue, but each heard in his own native language, and since the hearers knew that their languages were unknown to the speakers, they were amazed. In Acts 2:11 the word is glṓssais, languages, the languages learned from birth (equal to dialects of Acts 2:8) by the people who were then present. Those who heard them were greatly perplexed (diēpóroun, the imperf. of diaporéō [G1280] which in the KJV is inadequately translated "were in doubt" [Acts 2:12]), not understanding how the believers could speak the languages of those who listened. Although the noun ékstasis ecstasy, and the verb exístēmi, to be ecstatic, do not occur in relation to the unknown tongue spoken in Corinth, yet it could be termed "ecstatic" for the following reasons stated in 1Co 14:2, 1Co 14:9, 1Co 14:11, 1Co 14:14, 1Co 14:19, 1Co 14:23, the unknown tongue is mysterious and does not edify others (1Co 14:2); it has no target, but is as if speaking to the air (1Co 14:9); a person may be considered a barbarian, uncivilized (1Co 14:11); it does not benefit his spirit (1Co 14:14); it does not enable others to understand what he is saying, and there is an excess of words spoken (1Co 14:19); and others may think that the speakers are maniacs (1Co 14:23). All these reactions indicate ecstasy in speaking the unknown tongue which the Apostle Paul was desperately trying to control in Corinth. On the other hand, the deliberate, clearly enunciated and understood languages which those who were filled by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost spoke were not spoken in ecstasy, but aroused ecstasy or amazement either for (Acts 2:12) or against (Acts 2:13). The verb that indicates the clear, deliberate speech of those who spoke in languages other than their own at Pentecost is apophthéggomai (G669), which means to enunciate plainly. See Acts 2:4, Acts 2:14; Acts 26:25.

(VI) The stronger sense of the word ékstasis, translated in Eng. as "trance," is found in the description of Peter's vision of the vessel full of unclean animals (Acts 10:10; Acts 11:5). While engaged in prayer in the temple at Jerusalem, Paul fell into an ékstasis in which he was warned by the Lord to escape from the city (Acts 22:17-21).

(VII) The OT provides us with instances of undoubted rapture or ecstasy (cf. Num 24:15 ff.; 1Sa 2:27; 1Sa 9:6 ff.; 1Sa 10:5 ff.; 2Sa 24:11; 2Ki 9:11; Jer 29:26; Eze 3:25-26). In the NT, to be in ecstasy would mean to have one's spirit recognize spiritual objects beyond himself, such as the Apostle Paul describes in 2Co 12:1-6, although he does not refer to the word itself, but rather to visions (optasías [G3701], visions the spirit received while separated from the body, at which time certain revelations of the Lord were made). Such were the revelations that John received on the island of Patmos in which instance ecstasy is what he describes in Rev 1:10 as "I was in the spirit." It is noteworthy that the word "spirit" is not preceded by the art. in the Gr. and may very well mean that this should be translated "I came to be in the spiritual world," or seeing things with his spirit, even as Paul did, his spirit ascending to the third heaven or paradise."- Spiros Zodhiates- "Complete Word Study"
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Thanks, Steko.

At first glance, I like this.
I'm going to look over all the verses listed.

And I fixed the formatting in your post so the verses would show up when the cursor hovers over them now.
 
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