Heaven

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RBBI

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Paul wasn't talking about himself ascending to the 3rd heaven....he said he knew a man who did. He was referring to Stephen when he was stoned; Paul was standing there at the time, likely holding his garments. Stephen's forgiveness of Paul on the spot is why there WAS a Paul later to write letters, instead of a murderous Pharisee. Peace

PS. Notice that the text in Acts 2 didn't say they were all speaking our own languages, it says we HEARD them in our own languages. Common sense: if a bunch of people were speaking at once loudly in different earthly languages, no way could all present pick out their particular language from among the multitude. Three thousand people were added to the church that day, so this was no cozy private meeting.

The spoke as the Spirit gave them utterance (gift of tongues), but the masses received the gift of interpretation on the spot, from the same Spirit. This is how they were able to "hear" both the literal tongues being spoken, yet the Spirit who gives the hearing ear, let them hear the message in their own language. It's not natural hearing, it's being caught up to hear via the Spirit. TOTALLY different.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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RBBI said:
Paul wasn't talking about himself ascending to the 3rd heaven....he said he knew a man who did. He was referring to Stephen when he was stoned; Paul was standing there at the time, likely holding his garments. Stephen's forgiveness of Paul on the spot is why there WAS a Paul later to write letters, instead of a murderous Pharisee. Peace
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Who said Paul was talking about himself ?
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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jamie said:
Well, not any responses so far.

If you are referring to the third heaven (God's realm) that is a spiritual dimension that envelops the earth.

To spend eternity with Christ we will be busy developing the kingdom of God.
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Yes, I'm talking about the final heaven. Can anyone imagine for me ?
 
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patrick jane

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For some reason folks seem reluctant or silent on what they think the 3rd heaven will be like. I have offered very detailed thoughts that I have imagined.

It's ok to let your mind think of heavenly things -

Colossians 3:2 KJV -
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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patrick jane said:
For some reason folks seem reluctant or silent on what they think the 3rd heaven will be like. I have offered very detailed thoughts that I have imagined.
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I don't know what you mean by "3rd heaven," but "final heaven" must be what I think of as the new heaven. Today is the old heaven. Our Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead just as we all shall do on that day, as a new body, which will go right along with the new earth, and with the new heaven. We can be new here on new earth, or go to new heaven; back-and-forth, back-and-forth. I don't know how we're going to be able to do that, travel over 13.7 billion lightyears in a reasonable amount of time, but we are talking about eternity, so perhaps it will take more than 13.7 billion years, but that will seem like a stroll through the park for us. Who knows? But our Lord ascended to heaven, less than 2,000 years ago, so He must have traveled to the present heaven at much much faster than the speed of light. Jacob's ladder.
patrick jane said:
It's ok to let your mind think of heavenly things -

Colossians 3:2 KJV -
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That's actually a command. ;)
 
patrick jane

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Nihilo said:
I don't know what you mean by "3rd heaven," but "final heaven" must be what I think of as the new heaven. Today is the old heaven. Our Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead just as we all shall do on that day, as a new body, which will go right along with the new earth, and with the new heaven. We can be new here on new earth, or go to new heaven; back-and-forth, back-and-forth. I don't know how we're going to be able to do that, travel over 13.7 billion lightyears in a reasonable amount of time, but we are talking about eternity, so perhaps it will take more than 13.7 billion years, but that will seem like a stroll through the park for us. Who knows? But our Lord ascended to heaven, less than 2,000 years ago, so He must have traveled to the present heaven at much much faster than the speed of light. Jacob's ladder.
That's actually a command. ;)
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Yep, I'm talking about the final status of heaven, when all things have come to pass -

Revelation 10:7 KJV -
 
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Crucible

Crucible

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'Soul Sleep' is heresy.

Even before Christ, the saved were in "Abraham's Bosom"- which is archaically believed to have been a blessed sanctum within the underworld. Below it is a place called "Tartarus" where particular judgement occurs until final damnation.

abrahamsbosom.jpg
 
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Timotheos

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Crucible said:
'Soul Sleep' is heresy.

Even before Christ, the saved were in "Abraham's Bosom"- which is archaically believed to have been a blessed sanctum within the underworld. Below it is a place called "Tartarus" where particular judgement occurs until final damnation.

abrahamsbosom.jpg
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Why should a Protestant Christian care what the Catholics consider heresy?
 
Crucible

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The orthodox notion is that the saved go immediately to Heaven. It's called 'Particular Salvation' in which the body remains on Earth but the soul goes into Paradise until the time when both reunite.

It's the same with damnation as well, appropriately called 'Particular Judgement'- a soul will enter Hell until it is reunited with it's body at final judgement.

In Calvinism, there is 'Limited Atonement', which is essentially 'Particular Redemption', in which the elect are already bound for salvation.
 
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