Have You Fallen From Grace?

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I said
They cant show you because its not in there. They don't follow the rules of believing. You do. The first rule is don't think beyond what is written, then don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.

I added nothing here but yet no one seems to want to address it:

The fact of the matter is that before He was made a little lower than the angels He shared God's glory, saying:

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was"
(Jn.17:5).​

The Lord Jesus must be God because Jehovah said that He will not give His glory to another:

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images" (Isa.42:8).​

"For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another" (Isa.48:11).​

Since Jehovah says that He will not give His glory to another and the Lord Jesus shared that same glory before the world began then He has to be Jehovah.

And those who deny this truth will die in their sins. He said:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

Those who heard Him certainly knew He was claiming to be God based on the fact that He said that He is from above. After all, Who else would He be claiming to be except God?
 
Last edited:

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
I added nothing here but yet no one seems to want to address it:

The fact of the matter is that before He was made a little lower than the angels He shared God's glory, saying:

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was"
(Jn.17:5).​

The Lord Jesus must be God because Jehovah said that He will not give His glory to another:

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images" (Isa.42:8).​

"For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another" (Isa.48:11).​

Since Jehovah says that He will not give His glory to another and the Lord Jesus shared that same glory before the world began then He has to be Jehovah.

And those who deny this truth will die in their sins. He said:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

Those who heard Him certainly knew He was claiming to be God based on the fact that He said that He is from above. After all, Who else would He be claiming to be except God?

I said
You have some very poor logic. According to you satan must be God also.

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
7 And the LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it."
(NKJ)
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
:yawn: Ad infinitum Eph 4:14 :troll:

As a reminder marhig is number 65 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

I said
What is wrong with you? Don't you know your condemning yourself.

James 4:11
11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
(NKJ)

James 3:6
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.
(NKJ)

James 3:8-10
8 But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so.
(NKJ)
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
:yawn: Proof please :peach: Eph 4:14, Ro 14:4, Ps 105:15

As a reminder Squeaky is number 9 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

I said

James 3:8-10
8 But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so.
(NKJ)
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I said
You have some very poor logic. According to you satan must be God also.

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
7 And the LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it."
(NKJ)

Satan is a fallen angel. Are you sating that the Lord Jesus is an angel?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I said
No I'm saying that satan came down from heaven.

You have not yet explained why or how the Lord Jesus was in heaven before He came down to earth.

And you have yet to say who you think is being referred to here in "bold":

"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones" (Isa.57:15).​

And who do you say that this is referring to:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace"
(Isa.9:6).​
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
You have not yet explained why or how the Lord Jesus was in heaven before He came down to earth.

And you have yet to say who you think is being referred to here in "bold":

"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones" (Isa.57:15).​

And who do you say that this is referring to:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace"
(Isa.9:6).​

I said
I can explain all that to you in one sentance. That is old testament.
And who ever does NOT abide(live) in the new testament Does not have God.

II Jn 1:7-11
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I said
I can explain all that to you in one sentance. That is old testament.
And who ever does NOT abide(live) in the new testament Does not have God.

Are you saying that nothing written in the OT is worthy of consideration? I think that you have no answers to what I said so you must try to somehow get rid of the verses which I quoted.

For your information, the writers of the New Testament quoted verses from the OT numerous times so they did not always abide in the NT. According to you because they did that they do not have God.

If you want something from the NT then consider the following words of Thomas spoken to the Lord Jesus:

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God"
(Jn.20:28).​

If the Lord Jesus is not God then He would have hastily corrected what Thomas said. But He did no such thing.
 

marhig

Well-known member
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace"[/I] (Isa.9:6). [/INDENT]
So do you also believe that Jesus is the father too?
 

marhig

Well-known member
:yawn: Ad infinitum Eph 4:14 :troll:

As a reminder marhig is number 65 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

Gosh, are there that many in here that have seen the light and know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent? Great!

Still no verse to back up what you're saying though, that we have to believe in the trinity to belong to God, or to be saved, or any verse that says that if we don't believe in the trinity that we belong to Satan?

Where is it in the Bible? How can you condemn others when you don't even have the scriptures to back up what your saying?

Surely you know seeing that you have already condemned at least 65 as belonging to Satan?

I hope that God forgives you for what you have said against many who could belong to God!
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Are you saying that nothing written in the OT is worthy of consideration? I think that you have no answers to what I said so you must try to somehow get rid of the verses which I quoted.

For your information, the writers of the New Testament quoted verses from the OT numerous times so they did not always abide in the NT. According to you because they did that they do not have God.

If you want something from the NT then consider the following words of Thomas spoken to the Lord Jesus:

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God"
(Jn.20:28).​

If the Lord Jesus is not God then He would have hastily corrected what Thomas said. But He did no such thing.

I said
I can refute anything you ask with the verses. You really don't get the point. Keeping the old testament is evidence you don't have the right God or the right Jesus.

ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT
FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
2 Cor 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
Gal 2:21
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
1 Cor 10:1-12
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3 all ate the same spiritual food,
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.
7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."
8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;
9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;
10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Rom 13:8
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 3:33
33 "He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true.
John 3:35-36
35 "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3-8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
Gal 2:19-21
19 "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Gal 3:24-25
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 5:1-5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 4:21
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
Rom 7:4-6
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 13:10
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
1 Pet 2:19-21
19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
(NKJ)

xxx Jesus wants everyone who is going to be a christian to understand that the new covenant(testament) is just that new. That you cant go back and keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasnt brought over to the new testament. Jesus new what to bring over man doesnt. But the old testament has to be obsolete to you in order for you to get the fullness of the new testament. 11John 1-9 is very specific if you dont abide(live) in the new testament you dont have the real God. There IS a veil over the old testament that remains to THIS day.
If Jesus were in the old testament this verse could only be meant for God and the angels. But Jesus wasnt in the old testament.
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

xxx Jesus nailed the old testament to the cross. If you have nailed the old testament to your cross, you are in Christianity.

Col 2:13-14
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
(NKJ)

Acts 15:10
10 "Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(NKJ)

Acts 15:24-29
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law'-- to whom we gave no such commandment--
25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:
29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.
(NKJ)


Rom 2:1-29

1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.
3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?
4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-- indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,
18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,
19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?
24 For "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written.
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?
27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
(NKJ)


Heb 8:7
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
(NKJ)

Heb 10:1

1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
(NKJ)


Col 2:11-14
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
(NKJ)
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Heb 10:9
9 then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.
(NKJ)


Gal 5:1-4

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)
Luke 16:13
13 "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."


Gal 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
(NKJ)


Rom 7:1-4
1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?
2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
(NKJ)

Rom 11:28
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
(NKJ)

Gal 5:11
11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.
(NKJ)

Acts 21:20-21
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;
21 "but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
(NKJ)



xxx Jesus nailed the old testament to the cross. If you have nailed the old testament to your cross, you are in Christianity.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I can refute anything you ask with the verses. You really don't get the point. Keeping the old testament is evidence you don't have the right God or the right Jesus.

Keeping the Old Testament? Just because I present different prophecies from the Ot does not mean that I am keeping the old Testament. I get the idea that you really do not believe what Paul wrote here:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
(2 Tim.3:16).​

You even refuse to answer my question when I asked you the identity of who is being spoken of in this verse from the OT:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace"
(Isa.9:6).​

You also refuse to answer my question in regard the identity of the person in "bold" in this verse:

"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones" (Isa.57:15).​

Do you not know the answer to these questions?
 

marhig

Well-known member
I said
I can refute anything you ask with the verses. You really don't get the point. Keeping the old testament is evidence you don't have the right God or the right Jesus.

ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT
FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT
Heb 8:13
13In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
2 Cor 3:14-15
14But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
Gal 2:21
21"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Gal 4:4-5
4But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
5to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
John 10:8-9
8"All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
1 Cor 10:1-12
1Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3all ate the same spiritual food,
4and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
5But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.
7And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."
8Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;
9nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;
10nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come.
12Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Rom 13:8
8Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
John 6:63
63"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
John 4:23-24
23"But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 17:17
17"Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
John 3:34
34"For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 3:33
33"He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true.
John 3:35-36
35"The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
36"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Rom 8:1-2
1There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3-8
3For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
John 14:26
26"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
Gal 2:19-21
19"For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Gal 3:24-25
24Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 5:1-5
1Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 4:21
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
Rom 7:4-6
4Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
5For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 13:10
10Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
1 Pet 2:19-21
19For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
20For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
21For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
II Jn 1:9-11
9Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
John 1:17
17For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
(NKJ)

xxx Jesus wants everyone who is going to be a christian to understand that the new covenant(testament) is just that new. That you cant go back and keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasnt brought over to the new testament. Jesus new what to bring over man doesnt. But the old testament has to be obsolete to you in order for you to get the fullness of the new testament. 11John 1-9 is very specific if you dont abide(live) in the new testament you dont have the real God. There IS a veil over the old testament that remains to THIS day.
If Jesus were in the old testament this verse could only be meant for God and the angels. But Jesus wasnt in the old testament.
Hi squeaky, although I agree with lots of what you say, I wouldn't completely deny the old testament. I believe that once we are born of the spirit, then we will follow the laws because they are written in our hearts and in our minds. I believe that we don't follow them by the letter like they did of old, where man is able to corrupt as he did. But we live by the spirit, we can't corrupt the spirit who teaches us the truth from within and gives us a conscience, and once we are born of God and live by the spirit, God teaches us direct in our hearts and no man can corrupt that so long as we keep our faith and do his will and follow Jesus, his way is the only way and the way back to God is through him.

I believe that Jesus came and lived it out perfectly, he sacrificed his whole life for God and us to bare witness to the truth and show the true way being a perfect example bringing us a new and living way to follow God, which isn't just by the letter of the law. Not a way that had been corrupted by man. Although his way has also been corrupted from the simplicity of the gospel to the falsehoods of religion and false churches but man can't corrupt the spirit, and we will know the truth in our hearts when we hear it, it will prick our hearts.

Also, the prophets had the holy spirit and Christ was in them and they preached the truth. And it says in the Bible that Gods church is built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets and that Christ is our cornerstone. So I couldn't just not listen to the prophets, or Gods commandments. And Paul said that we establish the law, and we do this by obeying God and doing his will, obeying the holy spirit as he teaches us, listening to our conscience and doing what's right before God.

What do you think?
 

marhig

Well-known member
You even refuse to answer my question when I asked you the identity of who is being spoken of in this verse from the OT:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given]: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​


And you've refused to answer mine, is Jesus also the father?​
 
Top