Have You Fallen From Grace?

[marhig]

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).

I've been pondering upon this verse, and I can see that what is meant by this is that Jesus was filled with the holy spirit, Jesus isn't God or the father, but he had the fullness of God the father in him by the power of the spirit because he denied the world and his flesh and we saw the express image of God through him.

Jesus also said that the scriptures say the ye are Gods upon whom the word of God came. And the scriptures cannot be broken. But that doesn't mean that we are God, but that we are in the image God when we are born of him and deny our flesh and walk in the spirit. Jesus was in the express image of God and he was not of this world and he had nothing of the flesh in him and Satan couldn't touch him as he denied him completely, we fall and sin so we don't show the fullness of God that Jesus did, the more we deny ourselves and turn from this world and Satan and do Gods will, the more others will see God and Christ in us.

I was thinking about the puddle again. And I thought that once water is separated from the sea, then it becomes still, and once it's still it gives a reflection of what's above. I've seen this before. But what I saw today is this, that the bigger the puddle, then the more of a reflection that it shows. The puddle on the earth shows a picture of what is above. And this is like us, once Gods people are separated from the world and have entered into his rest, we don't do the works of the flesh anymore, and we do the will of God thus showing a reflection of heaven on earth, showing God and Christ in us. And the more the water (which is the word of God) fills us, then the more we show the image of God in heaven. Jesus was completely covered and he showed a a complete image of heaven and the full picture of God, by the power of the spirit he was in the fullness of God. Thus being the mighty God manifest in flesh. But he isn't the Almighty God, the Almighty God is the father. And when we lay down our lives, we are covered then in Christ we are filled with the word by the spirit. And we become like the stars of the sky, some brighter than others but all belonging to God and being guides those in the darkness, and just as the stars receive their light from the sun and reflect what they are given, we shine the light that is given to us to those in darkness in the world guiding them through Jesus Christ back to God.

 

[Squeaky]

Hi squeaky, although I agree with lots of what you say, I wouldn't completely deny the old testament. I believe that once we are born of the spirit, then we will follow the laws because they are written in our hearts and in our minds. I believe that we don't follow them by the letter like they did of old, where man is able to corrupt as he did. But we live by the spirit, we can't corrupt the spirit who teaches us the truth from within and gives us a conscience, and once we are born of God and live by the spirit, God teaches us direct in our hearts and no man can corrupt that so long as we keep our faith and do his will and follow Jesus, his way is the only way and the way back to God is through him.

I believe that Jesus came and lived it out perfectly, he sacrificed his whole life for God and us to bare witness to the truth and show the true way being a perfect example bringing us a new and living way to follow God, which isn't just by the letter of the law. Not a way that had been corrupted by man. Although his way has also been corrupted from the simplicity of the gospel to the falsehoods of religion and false churches but man can't corrupt the spirit, and we will know the truth in our hearts when we hear it, it will prick our hearts.

Also, the prophets had the holy spirit and Christ was in them and they preached the truth. And it says in the Bible that Gods church is built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets and that Christ is our cornerstone. So I couldn't just not listen to the prophets, or Gods commandments. And Paul said that we establish the law, and we do this by obeying God and doing his will, obeying the holy spirit as he teaches us, listening to our conscience and doing what's right before God.

What do you think?

I said
I understand.

 

[Squeaky]

I've been pondering upon this verse, and I can see that what is meant by this is that Jesus was filled with the holy spirit, Jesus isn't God or the father, but he had the fullness of God the father in him by the power of the spirit because he denied the world and his flesh and we saw the express image of God through him.

Jesus also said that the scriptures say the ye are Gods upon whom the word of God came. And the scriptures cannot be broken. But that doesn't mean that we are God, but that we are in the image God when we are born of him and deny our flesh and walk in the spirit. Jesus was in the express image of God and he was not of this world and he had nothing of the flesh in him and Satan couldn't touch him as he denied him completely, we fall and sin so we don't show the fullness of God that Jesus did, the more we deny ourselves and turn from this world and Satan and do Gods will, the more others will see God and Christ in us.

I was thinking about the puddle again. And I thought that once water is separated from the sea, then it becomes still, and once it's still it gives a reflection of what's above. I've seen this before. But what I saw today is this, that the bigger the puddle, then the more of a reflection that it shows. The puddle on the earth shows a picture of what is above. And this is like us, once Gods people are separated from the world and have entered into his rest, we don't do the works of the flesh anymore, and we do the will of God thus showing a reflection of heaven on earth, showing God and Christ in us. And the more the water (which is the word of God) fills us, then the more we show the image of God in heaven. Jesus was completely covered and he showed a a complete image of heaven and the full picture of God, by the power of the spirit he was in the fullness of God. Thus being the mighty God manifest in flesh. But he isn't the Almighty God, the Almighty God is the father. And when we lay down our lives, we are covered then in Christ we are filled with the word by the spirit. And we become like the stars of the sky, some brighter than others but all belonging to God and being guides those in the darkness, and just as the stars receive their light from the sun and reflect what they are given, we shine the light that is given to us to those in darkness in the world guiding them through Jesus Christ back to God.

I said
Isa 9-6
I seen Billy Grahames son preach on this.
He gave a good understanding. Like it says the government will be upon His shoulders. That hasnt happened yet.
Upon His government and peace there will be no end. That hasnt happened yet.
And over His kingdom. He hasnt got a kingdom yet.
This is a prophesy of Jesus Christs second coming. Which hasnt happened yet.

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgment and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
(NKJ)

Dont forget about the old testament

2 Cor 3:13-15
13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
(NKJ)

 

[marhig]

I said
Isa 9-6
I seen Billy Grahames son preach on this.
He gave a good understanding. Like it says the government will be upon His shoulders. That hasnt happened yet.
Upon His government and peace there will be no end. That hasnt happened yet.
And over His kingdom. He hasnt got a kingdom yet.
This is a prophesy of Jesus Christs second coming. Which hasnt happened yet.

Isa 9:6-7
6For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgment and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
(NKJ)

Dont forget about the old testament

2 Cor 3:13-15
13unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
(NKJ)

Ah, I do believe differently in this, i leave the natural in God's capable hands, but spiritually Jesus has already returned, he returned in that generation, just like he said he would. He came back in his prophets, and in his disciples and in his people right down to this day and he is still coming back in them now. Paul said not I but Christ in me, Christ is in as through his people, he has come back in flesh, and he strengthens us by the power of the spirit to overcome the flesh and bring God to others. I see the Bible very differently to many here. It's far more simple than many think.

But I do agree with much of what you say, and if you live by what you speak, then i I know that you belong to God, as do many who are on serpentdoves Satan's list. I can hear God in them, but they are treated as devil's. But it does say in the scriptures that this is how Gods people are treated by those of the world. As nothing's and lowlifes, their good spoken evil of, and even Jesus himself was called a devil, so you know that those of the world are going to call his people devil's too!

So to all those who are on serpentdoves list, remember these types of people treated Jesus in the same way too! Even to this day the veil remains on their hearts!

Matthew 5

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

 

[marhig]

The fact of the mstter is that before He was made a little lower than the angels He shared God's glory, saying:

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (Jn.17:5).​

The Lord Jesus must be God because Jehovah said that He will not give His glory to another.

Also in John 17

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi marhig,

You said this about the Lord jesus:

But he isn't the Almighty God, the Almighty God is the father.

No?

Then why does He call Himself the "Almighty"?:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.1:7-8).​

We can know that this is speaking of the Lord Jesus because common sense dictates that there can be only One who can be described as the "Alpha and Omega" and the "beginning and the ending," and that One is Jehovah, the Almighty God. And here we can see the Lord Jesus describing Himself that way:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

It is the Lord Jesus who is said to be coming quickly:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:12-13).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And you've refused to answer mine, is Jesus also the father?

Sure, He is the Father in this sense:

"But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Isa.64:8).​

The Lord Jesus certainly cannot be excluded from being the Potter because "by Him were all things created":

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church" (Col.1:16-18).​

This is speaking about the Lord Jesus, Who is the Head of the Body, the Church. And we can know that it is God who made man:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Gen.1:26,27).​

Again, the Lord Jesus cannot be excluded because He was the actual Potter who made man:

"But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Isa.64:8).​

We can also know that the Lord Jesus is also the Mighty God:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

 

[COGTHW]

Sure, He is the Father in this sense:

"But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Isa.64:8).​

The Lord Jesus certainly cannot be excluded from being the Potter because "by Him were all things created":

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church" (Col.1:16-18).​

This is speaking about the Lord Jesus, Who is the Head of the Body, the Church. And we can know that it is God who made man:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Gen.1:26,27).​

Again, the Lord Jesus cannot be excluded because He was the actual Potter who made man:

"But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Isa.64:8).​

We can also know that the Lord Jesus is also the Mighty God:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

I agree with all the verses you have on Jesus is God.

I must ask Mr.Shugart, two-four questions. Please. And I will answer whatever question you have for me.

1. What is the name of the Holy Ghost.?

2. Who sits on the throne.?

3. Is it three persons or one Godhead.? What is the name of the Godhead.?

4. What is the true Christian faith called.?


I promise I will answer any question/questions you have for me. Please and thank you.

 

[Squeaky]

Ah, I do believe differently in this, i leave the natural in God's capable hands, but spiritually Jesus has already returned, he returned in that generation, just like he said he would. He came back in his prophets, and in his disciples and in his people right down to this day and he is still coming back in them now. Paul said not I but Christ in me, Christ is in as through his people, he has come back in flesh, and he strengthens us by the power of the spirit to overcome the flesh and bring God to others. I see the Bible very differently to many here. It's far more simple than many think.

But I do agree with much of what you say, and if you live by what you speak, then i I know that you belong to God, as do many who are on serpentdoves Satan's list. I can hear God in them, but they are treated as devil's. But it does say in the scriptures that this is how Gods people are treated by those of the world. As nothing's and lowlifes, their good spoken evil of, and even Jesus himself was called a devil, so you know that those of the world are going to call his people devil's too!

So to all those who are on serpentdoves list, remember these types of people treated Jesus in the same way too! Even to this day the veil remains on their hearts!

Matthew 5

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

I said
Very good.

 

[Squeaky]

Also in John 17

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

I said
Very good.
THE 'ARE ONE' DELUSION
WE ARE ONE WITH CHRIST AND GOD AND HOLY SPIRIT
IF JESUS IS GOD BECAUSE OF THE ONENESS-THEN WE ARE GOD. NOT SO!
John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."
(NKJ)
John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
1 Cor 12:12-14
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
1 Cor 10:16-17
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.
1 Cor 3:7-11
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Rom 12:5
5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
John 17:20-23
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
John 10:29-30
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30 "I and My Father are one."
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor 6:17
17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Matt 10:32-33
32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
1 Cor 11:1
1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
2 Cor 10:4-5
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Rom 16:25-27
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--
27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
1 Cor 1:10
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Rom 12:16
16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Phil 3:16
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
2 Cor 4:13-14
13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," we also believe and therefore speak,
14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you.
(NKJ)
xxOneness is all about agreement. John 17-22 Jesus prayed that we may be one the same way that Jesus and God are one. Jesus submitted to every Word of God that shows His agreement. We are to submit to every Word of God to show our agreement.
Jesus prayed John 17-22 that we "are one" with Jesus and God the Father. And that doesnt make us God any more than it made Jesus God to be one with God.

 

[Squeaky]

Hi marhig,

You said this about the Lord jesus:



No?

Then why does He call Himself the "Almighty"?:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.1:7-8).​

We can know that this is speaking of the Lord Jesus because common sense dictates that there can be only One who can be described as the "Alpha and Omega" and the "beginning and the ending," and that One is Jehovah, the Almighty God. And here we can see the Lord Jesus describing Himself that way:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

It is the Lord Jesus who is said to be coming quickly:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:12-13).​

I said
Col 1:13-20
13 He(Father) has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son(Jesus) of His(Father) love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His(Jesus) blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him(Father) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him(Jesus) and for Him(Father).
17 And He(Father) is before all things, and in Him(Father) all things consist.
18 And He(Jesus) is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He(Jesus) may have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him(Jesus) all the fullness should dwell,
20 and by Him(Father) to reconcile all things to Himself(Father), by Him(Jesus), whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His(Jesus) cross.

 

[marhig]

Sure, He is the Father in this sense:

"But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Isa.64:8).​

The Lord Jesus certainly cannot be excluded from being the Potter because "by Him were all things created":

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church" (Col.1:16-18).​

This is speaking about the Lord Jesus, Who is the Head of the Body, the Church. And we can know that it is God who made man:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Gen.1:26,27).​

Again, the Lord Jesus cannot be excluded because He was the actual Potter who made man:

"But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Isa.64:8).​

We can also know that the Lord Jesus is also the Mighty God:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

I can show you that you are wrong regarding Jesus being the father by just a part of one verse

John 14

If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

[marhig]

Hi marhig,

You said this about the Lord jesus:



No?

Then why does He call Himself the "Almighty"?:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.1:7-8).​

We can know that this is speaking of the Lord Jesus because common sense dictates that there can be only One who can be described as the "Alpha and Omega" and the "beginning and the ending," and that One is Jehovah, the Almighty God. And here we can see the Lord Jesus describing Himself that way:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

It is the Lord Jesus who is said to be coming quickly:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:12-13).​

Because Jesus sent his angel to show John the revelation that he had received from God. And God is with him, in him and through him.

Revelation 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I must ask Mr.Shugart, two-four questions. Please. And I will answer whatever question you have for me.

COGTHW,

Why don't you just give us your opinions about these things? Then we can discuss them.

Thanks!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I said
Col 1:13-20
13 He(Father) has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son(Jesus) of His(Father) love,

Nothing you quoted even addresses the points which I made in answer to what marhig said here:

Hi marhig,

You said this about the Lord Jesus:

But he isn't the Almighty God, the Almighty God is the father.

No?

Then why does He call Himself the "Almighty"?:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.1:7-8).​

We can know that this is speaking of the Lord Jesus because common sense dictates that there can be only One who can be described as the "Alpha and Omega" and the "beginning and the ending," and that One is Jehovah, the Almighty God. And here we can see the Lord Jesus describing Himself that way:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

It is the Lord Jesus who is said to be coming quickly:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:12-13).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Because Jesus sent his angel to show John the revelation that he had received from God. And God is with him, in him and through him.

Revelation 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

I do not see how what you said there answers the points which I made about what you said about the Lord Jesus here:

But he isn't the Almighty God, the Almighty God is the father.

No?

Then why does He call Himself the "Almighty"?:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.1:7-8).​

We can know that this is speaking of the Lord Jesus because common sense dictates that there can be only One who can be described as the "Alpha and Omega" and the "beginning and the ending," and that One is Jehovah, the Almighty God. And here we can see the Lord Jesus describing Himself that way:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

It is the Lord Jesus who is said to be coming quickly:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:12-13).​

For the life of me I cannot see how you think that you refuted anything which I said. Could you be more specific?

Thanks!

 

[COGTHW]

COGTHW,

Why don't you just give us your opinions about these things? Then we can discuss them.

Thanks!

1.Jesus

2.Jesus

3. One / Jesus

4. Holiness

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I can show you that you are wrong regarding Jesus being the father by just a part of one verse

John 14

If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Of course that was true, especially since at that time He was made "a little lower than the angels" (Heb.2:7).

 

[marhig]

Nothing you quoted even addresses the points which I made in answer to what you said here:

Hi marhig,

You said this about the Lord jesus:



No?

Then why does He call Himself the "Almighty"?:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.1:7-8).​

We can know that this is speaking of the Lord Jesus because common sense dictates that there can be only One who can be described as the "Alpha and Omega" and the "beginning and the ending," and that One is Jehovah, the Almighty God. And here we can see the Lord Jesus describing Himself that way:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

It is the Lord Jesus who is said to be coming quickly:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:12-13).​

How can you not see that Jesus got his revelation from God so he can't be God? And that God is in Christ?

What do you think it means when it says that God gave revelation to Jesus Christ in revelation 1:1. Why would this be so if Jesus is God? I can't understand why you don't see, is clear as day! And it's not that Jesus is still in flesh either because he has naturally died and gone to heaven at Gods right hand before John said this. And John still says that Jesus received his revelation from God. Everything is done through Christ now he is at God's right hand because God has exhalted him.

I understand those verses completely, God gave Jesus revelation, to show Gods servants the things that should shortly come to pass, and Jesus sent it by his angel to his servant John who preached the word to all Gods other servants.

So Jesus is bringing to John, though his angel what God has revealed into him, the whole book is called revelation, it's the revelation that John received from God through Jesus Christ by his angel. It says this in the Bible!

Also, if you like, I can get many many verses to show you that Jesus isn't God. Including a verse that Jesus is actually saying that God is his God. How clear do people need it? Jesus is saying it himself!

I go to my father and your father, to my God and your God, that says it all! This shows us that Jesus isn't the father and that God is his God.

 

[marhig]

Of course that was true, especially since at that time He was made "a little lower than the angels" (Heb.2:7).

So when he was exhalted in heaven to the right hand of the God, how could he also be God and the father if God exhalted him?

And why, when he's in heaven, do the apostles call God, the God and father of our lord Jesus Christ? If Jesus is God and he is also the father? What you are saying makes no sense.

Also, why when Jesus was dying on the cross, did he ask the father to forgive them if he is the father. If Jesus is the father and God, then he would have no need to pray to God or ask the father for anything, because would be God and the father.

Jesus said he is going to his father, and that the father is greater than him, and that includes when he goes to back to him.

As I said what you are saying makes no sense.

Paul says that the head of Christ is God, and I believe him! And Jesus said that God is his God and I believe Jesus too!

Right, I'm just off out to our little house meeting, I'll have to answer anything else later.