Thank you for biblically establishing my point.
Has the Church Replaced Israel ?
- Thread starter beloved57
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Where in that passage does Paul discect the intellect from the spirit?
Where, Gary?
Please tell me how you read that passage and understood it without the use of your intellect?
So says the moron named Gary K.
There is NOTHING that can be discerned outside of a thinking mind, Gary! NOTHING!
Your every attempt to try to establish otherwise uses the very mind that you're trying to undermine to do it.
I am not talking about your IQ, you blithering idiot!
Even the stupidest (i.e. low IQ) people can have faith in God. Indeed, it is likely easier for such people. Just as children have a simple faith in the Father, so those who are not intellectually gifted can have a great faith and deep personal relationship with God.
But that doesn't make it some sort of mystical thing where God has sprinkled some sort of "faith powder" on their heads and caused them to believe IN SPITE of the mind! There can be no such thing as a belief (faith) in something in contradiction to your mind! We are NOT called to be double minded, where we think one thing and believe another. Faith is not about blindly believing something in contradiction to the verdict of our mind! On the contrary, faith is a product of the mind! It is the willingness that someone has to follow the verdict of the substantive evidence. That's what the author of Hebrews is saying when he states that faith is the substance of thing hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. The point he's making is that God hasn't made it so obvious that you can't deny it but that the evidence makes God's existence and character clearly evident for those who are looking to see it.
That's a point that Paul makes in Romans chapter one, and it is a point that your doctrine here openly denies and contradicts because Paul flatly states that those who do not believe ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE!!! (Romans 1:20)
Tell me, Gary, if the "natural man doesn't understand spiritual concepts no matter how great his intellect" how is it that men are without excuse?
So, was Paul right or is it Gary's mindless doctrine of mindlessness that's wrong?
Hmm? Let me think that over!
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Romans 1: 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Derf
Well-known member
Maybe I don't quite understand what you say I've established. Could you explain?
If the king was taken to Babylon for sins he led the nation to commit, and he was freed when he repented, don't you think God used Babylon to chastise him?
This passage supports what Clete said.
It also doesn't help your position.
Verse 20 is literally what Clete said:
"The point he's making is that God hasn't made it so obvious that you can't deny it but that the evidence makes God's existence and character clearly evident for those who are looking to see it."
It requires a rational mind to look for it.
So, if Clete is saying the same thing I am, that spiritual discernment is what gives the ability to understand spiritual discernment why the both of you calling me an idiot again?
Clete states the truth.
You do not.
If you stated the truth, and Clete knowingly disagreed with you. that would make him a liar.
Now take what I just said and reverse the names. That's what you're doing. That's why we call you a liar.
We call you an idiot because you're being an idiot.
How can we know that?
Because we walk in the Spirit, and you do not. Therefore, you cannot understand the things of the Spirit.
Start walking in the Spirit, and you'll begin to understand spiritual things.
The truth
WILL
set you free.
Here is what I said after quoting the passage in Romans 1.
| How does any person discern spiritual truth? By having spiritual discernment and that comes from the HS. not our intellect. Why. Because the natural man doesn't understand spiritual concepts no matter how great his intellect. |
Here is what Clete said in response.
| So says the moron named Gary K. There is NOTHING that can be discerned outside of a thinking mind, Gary! NOTHING! Your every attempt to try to establish otherwise uses the very mind that you're trying to undermine to do it. |
So figure it out for yourself.
Thank you for biblically establishing my point.
Okay, so first of all the phrase "sins he led THE NATION to commit" should be enough to establish my point, right?
But even if that weren't the case and it was entirely the king himself that God was punishing via Babylon, a single exception only serves to prove the rule and so you're argument wouldn't hold in any case.
Here's the basic principle. God is not unjust. God cannot simply do anything at all and remain just. God punishes people for THEIR OWN sin and no one else's. There are consequences to sin that effect people other than the perpetrator but that's a different issue. As for God's direct action in either the blessing or cursing of a nation (or an individual), it is in response to that nation's own actions. (see Jeremiah 18:7-10 and Ezekiel 18:1-32)
So figure it out for yourself, with what?
What is JudgeRightly to use to figure it out with, Gary?
How can people live with a system of beliefs that they can't even discuss beyond three sentences without contradicting themselves?
I'm accused of stupidity by constantly here by several of you. If I'm so stupid why can't all you supposedly really smart people figure out what scripture means and I have to explain it to them? Why don't you read my threads on ga'al and Is sinning a necessary condition and tell me how stupid I am. Why haven't you been doing that already? I've posted those same threads on a couple of forums where most people disagree with me and I get very few responders except for ad hominem attacks. Even those who don't attack me personally give up trying to demonstrate how wrong I am after a very few tries.
Derf is the smartest poster here and even he hasn't tried refuting me.
You spend 90% of the time on my ignore list, Gary. No one is interested in reading your threads because you've given them no reason to think you've got anything worth while to say. I didn't even know the threads existed!
And they aren't ad hominems! Sheesh! I wish people would learn what that term means.
Well, I see spending 90% of the the time on your ignore list as a positive.
It is one thing to point out that what somebody is doing is wrong. It is an entirely different thing to say they should be put to death for it.
What's the difference? (Hint: there isn't one.)
I don't agree with your explanation.
Sorry, after listening to a lot of Bob's teaching, I do not accept him as my teacher. He is an old testament Christian.
Yes, he said things deserved death but he never once called for anybody to be put to death. Instead, he taught them about the forgiveness to be found in Christ.
None the less, the verse does mean that we will be judged by the same measure we use to judge others. Are you so sure of your measure that you are willing to be judged by it?
And this is the crux of the matter and it has nothing to do with our sins. Read that verse again. Those that believe in Jesus as their Lord and Savior are not condemned. But those who do not believe in Jesus are already condemned. Nothing abut sin. When you believe, your sins are washed clean by Jesus. That is the Good News of the gospel: Jesus forgives your sins.
I would strongly disagree with this. It is VERY Biblical. Matthew 28:19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. That seems pretty clear direction to me!
Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through Him. Israel no longer plays a part in redemption. I also note that Jesus taught men to love their wives as Christ loves his church. What is Christ's church if it is not those that have accepted His gift of salvation?
I disagree. The New Covenant is between God and those who call His Son their savior.
I am saying that command became mute when Christ completed the Old Covenant and ushered in the New Covenant with His death on the cross. The Law of Moses, and its proscribed punishments, do not bind those of us under the New Covenant. I do not condone sin, but it is not my charge to punish it, only point it out and show people there is a better way.
It was just under the Old Covenant, under Mosaic Law. But the New Covenant sets a somewhat different standard.
The problem with legislating morality is that it does not work. All a law can do, any law including God's laws, is point out unacceptable behavior and proscribe a punishment. Take a law against homosexuality. In many Muslim countries have the death penalty for homosexuality. They put a lot of people to death for this. DO they have fewer homosexuals that us? No. They just have many homosexuals that are successfully hiding their homosexuality. Has the law changed their morality? Not even a little bit. Does this matter? Consider that Jesus said that, under the law, a man who looks at a woman with lust in their heart is guilty of adultery. Laws do not change peoples hearts and Jesus is concerned about what is in our hearts.
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Right Divider
Body part
Hogwash.
We have something in common then.
Derf
Well-known member
Let's try another one.
2 Kings 20:12-18 KJV — At that time Berodachbaladan, the son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters and a present unto Hezekiah: for he had heard that Hezekiah had been sick. And Hezekiah hearkened unto them, and shewed them all the house of his precious things, the silver, and the gold, and the spices, and the precious ointment, and all the house of his armour, and all that was found in his treasures: there was nothing in his house, nor in all his dominion, that Hezekiah shewed them not. Then came Isaiah the prophet unto king Hezekiah, and said unto him, What said these men? and from whence came they unto thee? And Hezekiah said, They are come from a far country, even from Babylon. And he said, What have they seen in thine house? And Hezekiah answered, All the things that are in mine house have they seen: there is nothing among my treasures that I have not shewed them. And Isaiah said unto Hezekiah, Hear the word of the LORD. Behold, the days come, that all that is in thine house, and that which thy fathers have laid up in store unto this day, shall be carried into Babylon: nothing shall be left, saith the LORD. And of thy sons that shall issue from thee, which thou shalt beget, shall they take away; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon.
God used Babylon to punish Hezekiah's offspring in response to Hezekiah showing off his riches.
The punishment was for Hezekiah's actions. It was to be executed by another nation, and it would be executed on someone besides the guilty party (to your point below.
Never said He was.
But there seems to be collateral damage, like children killed in the flood.
Yes, but is it a different issue? Id be interested to hear your take on it.
Agreed, except for those types of examples mentioned above. And I'll give you 1 more.
David's first son with Bathsheba.