Has the Church Replaced Israel ?

[Tambora]

The only thing you said here that is accidentally correct

Accidentally?????
Bahaaaahaaa!

 

[Gary K]

So then what changed, Tambora? If what you say is so, then why is there even a New Testament?

The only thing you said here that is accidentally correct is that God's selection of Israel (i.e. the nation) wasn't because of that nation's own righteousness. Everything else you've said completely ignores not only the fact that Paul explicitly calls "his gospel" the "the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began" (Romans 16 & Ephesians 3), but also the explicitly stated fact that, before Paul's gospel of grace, Gentiles were "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world."(Ephesians 2).

According to you, this gospel of grace is "no surprise"! It's just the same as it had always been! If that's so, then why bother with the Paul in the first place? Jesus already had twelve apostles, why not send them to the whole world as Paul was sent? Why did they agree with Paul to only minister to "the circumcision" (Galatians 2)? Why was it necessary for Paul to be sent by God (i.e. by revelation (Galatians 2:2)) to explain his gospel to the Peter, James and John and why did he repeatedly call it "my gospel" and make a big point of telling his followers that he didn't receive his gospel from any person, nor was he taught it but that He received it by revelation from the risen Lord Jesus Christ? (Galatians 1). If nothing is different, then where in the world is there any need to give anything to anyone by revelation much less something that had to be explained BY PAUL (i.e. not God) to the guys in Jerusalem who had just spent the last few years directly under the training of the incarnate God the Son Himself?

If nothing's changed and Gentiles are saved today the same way they've always been, please explain to me how Peter, the lead Apostle, after having been trained by Christ Himself and after having received the Holy Spirit, was so completely confused that God had to twist his arm so hard to get him to even go inside Cornelius' house (Acts 10) and why would he have allowed "the men from James" to cause him to separate himself from the Gentiles to the point that Paul had to call him a hypocrite right to his face (Galatians 2)?

Someone might say you ought to read the Talmud. The Pharisees followed the Talmud more than than they did the Torah. If you're interested in reading some of It I'll give you a link to one of them. They had their own traditions that had started from the Babylonian captivity, and the Talmud was their Bible.

Mat_15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Mat_15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Mar_7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

Mar_7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mar_7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[Clete]

Accidentally?????
Bahaaaahaaa!

Yes, accidentally.

 

[Tambora]

Everything else you've said completely ignores not only the fact that Paul explicitly calls "his gospel" the "the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began" (Romans 16

If you would only read the text without your preconceived bias, you might have noticed this:

Romans 16​

(25) Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages​

(26) but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith​

It was the OT that Paul used to prove his teaching was correct.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

If you would only read the text without your preconceived bias, you might have noticed this:

Romans 16​

(25) Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages​

(26) but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith​

It was the OT that Paul used to prove his teaching was correct.

Yep. It's why Jesus said all who came before him were robbers and thieves. But the sheep did not hear them.

 

[Clete]

If you would only read the text without your preconceived bias,....

Hypocrite!

If you would only read the text without your preconceived bias, you might have noticed this:

Romans 16​

(25) Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages​

(26) but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith​

It was the OT that Paul used to prove his teaching was correct.

So you're saying it wasn't a "revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ"?

Or was this just you attempting to ignore the point?

 

[Tambora]

Hypocrite!

Right back at ya!

So you're saying it wasn't a "revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ"?

So you're saying it hasn't been made known through the prophetic writings?
Or was this just you attempting to ignore the point?

 

[Clete]

Right back at ya!'

The whole thread is still right here, idiot.

So you're saying it hasn't been made known through the prophetic writings?

NO! I wrote neither Romans nor Ephesians, Tambora!

You see, there was this guy named Paul. He used to be named Saul but then God changed his name after something major CHANGED!!!

It is Israel's program that was prophesied, not the Body of Christ.

Or was this just you attempting to ignore the point?

You're ignoring the point you slobbering moronic liar.

Don't respond again. I won't read it. You're a complete waste of bandwidth that will never be banned no matter how boring, unresponsive or stupid the things you say become - except by me.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

So you're saying it hasn't been made known through the prophetic writings?

Acts 28:23
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

You see, there was this guy named Paul. He used to be named Saul but then God changed his name after something major CHANGED!!!

Or something major was revealed. That is that the long suffering of the Lord is salvation.

 

[Tambora]

Acts 28:23
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Yeppers.
Paul proved the gospel through the OT writings.

 

[Tambora]

Or something major was revealed. That is that the long suffering of the Lord is salvation.

Yeppers.
That God was bringing together Jew and Gentile believers to form one new man, not two.

Ephesians 2
(14) For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
(15) by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

 

[Tambora]

The whole thread is still right here, idiot.

Yes it is, moron.

Don't respond again. I won't read it.

Cry me a river.

 

[Idolater]

Or something major was revealed. That is that the long suffering of the Lord is salvation.

Or it was just because the guy happened to go by the same name as some other, inconsequential guy, namely Sergius Paulus Acts 13:7, who appears in Luke's account, and Luke takes the opportunity to tell his audience that Saul was also known as Paulus, like Sergius was. Acts 13:9 It wasn't that dramatic.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Or it was just because the guy happened to go by the same name as some other, inconsequential guy, namely Sergius Paulus Acts 13:7, who appears in Luke's account, and Luke takes the opportunity to tell his audience that Saul was also known as Paulus, like Sergius was. Acts 13:9 It wasn't that dramatic.

That too is a plausible point.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Ahhh! It is always so refreshing to see the Body of Christ so united in their efforts to take the Good News to all men that they may be saved!

 

[7djengo7]

Ahhh! It is always so refreshing to see the Body of Christ so united in their efforts to take the Good News to all men that they may be saved!

Everybody needs to get together and unite around what you have to say, right?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Everybody needs to get together and unite around what you have to say, right?

Oh heavens no! The last thing we need is yet another voicing shouting over the very quite voice of the Holy Spirit that is attempting to get us to listen to His Word.

 

[7djengo7]

Oh heavens no! The last thing we need is yet another voicing shouting over the very quite voice of the Holy Spirit that is attempting to get us to listen to His Word.

So, you're that one, lone voice who's not "shouting over the very [quiet] voice of the Holy Spirit that is attempting to get us to listen to His Word", eh?

 

[CabinetMaker]

I am just observing that the Body of Christ is so fractured to those on the outside looking in that we really do a very pour job of showing the world the Hope within. We appear to be far more concerned with beating each other over the head with our preferred doctrines that we never seem to get around to actually sharing the Gospel.